US economy is getting regional; the middle class income is now regional as well

[Singuy]

How old are you? Why are your parents dictating what kind of car you drive?

It's a cultural thing. We tend to let our parents dictate more as a sign of respect or being filial..tend to not rock the boat too much because of Confucius teachings ingrained into the culture.

The American culture doesn't share the same way of life. I see many Asian parent's heart broken because their children became too "Americanized". I and my wife decided to be more of a hybrid. I probably could care less what my child choose to be and actually expect her to be "Americanized".

[Singuy]

To address the bolded......we purchased 3 homes in Los Angeles. The first was in 1995. It was $142K. We should never have sold that home. However, we made $75K on it when we sold it (after realtor fees, etc...). The final home we bought was in 2000 for $250K. We sold it for $600K, but we did put some work into it and I think we cleared about $200K after all was said and done with fixing it up, realtor fees, etc....

So, we really didn't have an 8x house payment......because we bought at the right time.

If we were to go BACK, that is when we would have the problem......going back to a HCOL would be far more problematic than being there from the beginning.

This is how I feel about CA. It used to make sense..houses were pricey but not ridiculous. Now it's just ridiculous and beyond the reach of anyone but the 1% and yet the place is more popular than ever! You would think the ridiculous living cost would drive people to leave so in return they may actually have to pay service workers more because they become more rare..but then that also means 10 bucks for a cup of coffee when their rent is already stupid high and now paying workers 30 dollars/hr.

[tripods68]

This topic has transformed more into like "intervention" for Singuy's cultural upbringing pinned against American value not shared by him...That American
should live their life, live like the 'hybrid' Chinese way--pay everything for cash, buy a big house, nice, car that you love? Don't get me wrong, i'm trying to understand your view.

I also interpreted how you don't like California because its a progressive state (ridiculous and stupid to live there), so those people who live in that state SHOULD move out and live places like Florida, a low cost state to save taxes and achieve FI faster. Is that what you are trying to say by kinda "mocking" because we live in HCOLA? That's what appear you are trying to say. If not, explain...

[Singuy]

I also interpreted how you don't like California because its a progressive state (ridiculous and stupid to live there), so those people who live in that state SHOULD move out and live places like Florida, a low cost state to save taxes and achieve FI faster. Is that what you are trying to say by kinda "mocking" because we live in HCOLA? That's what appear you are trying to say. If not, explain...

I don't understand, time and time again, if you read all my posts, I am talking to paycheck to paycheck Americans who CANNOT AFFORD to live in CA like people who work in the service industry. Just like how if you work at Target bagging groceries in FL, you shouldn't be buying a house unless you want to be broke for life. The difference between FL and Cali is, we have ways for you to get by spending 300/month on rent in a normal city(not in the boonies). Sure it may just be a studio or a room in a house..but it's possible.

My reasoning for not moving to Cali is because it will hinder MY progress to reach FI. My salary will only go up by 15%, while my wife may get paid LESS because a lot of her friends who live in Cali claims that the optometry gig is saturated. So in the best case scenario, we may break even or perhaps get a 5-10% boost in our earnings..which as explained above will be eaten up by taxes alone.

I also provided evidence that cities in Cali are the WORST places to SAVE money. My goal is to save a high portion of my income to reach FI faster..it may not be YOUR goal. And I have done things that I enjoy to be counter-intuitive(like the pool or this house). But sure..if you have a goal of trying to reach FI at the fastest possible rate and you refuse to leave Cali, then that's just being counter-intuitive. And it's not the goal for most people because who wants to just ONLY save?

Again, please stop ignoring my intent, which is to help poor people get out of poverty. If you can afford to live in HCOLAS area, then it's a choice you have made and no one here thinks it's the wrong choice! There are way too many people in the U.S who thinks they can afford to live in HCOLAS but they don't. I am just providing them an alternative.

[tripods68]

The difference between FL and Cali is, we have ways for you to get by spending 300/month on rent in a normal city(not in the boonies). Sure it may just be a studio or a room in a house..but it's possible.

That's a just a blanket statement!

You can find studio here by sharing apartments with roommates, pay half on utilities, among living expenses. My coworkers share house with two roommates all split the cost living just $800 a month working FT. It's not really that impossible.

I also provided evidence that cities in Cali are the WORST places to SAVE money.

I don't disagree with this however, but most people find ways to save, earn more income. California has probably have the highest median income the country because of HCOLA.

Again, please stop ignoring my intent, which is to help poor people get out of poverty.

What kind of things are you doing to help the poor in your area? Care to share it to this forum?

[Singuy]

That's a just a blanket statement!

You can find studio here by sharing apartments with roommates, pay half on utilities, among living expenses. My coworkers share house with two roommates all split the cost living just $800 a month working FT. It's not really that impossible.


I don't disagree with this however, but most people find ways to save, earn more income. California has probably have the highest median income the country because of HCOLA.



What kind of things are you doing to help the poor in your area? Care to share it to this forum?

1. California having the highest median income at 72k/year? Then after you add the extra consumption tax they charge, state tax, and recycling fees..the true income is not that much more than other places.

2. Poverty is a mindset and perhaps I have used the wrong wording here. I see paycheck to paycheck living as poverty because you are one paycheck away from becoming homeless..but in reality this is probably not the true definiton of poverty..and I have don't nothing to help those under the poverty threshold to gain more money. I, however, did start a financial class for my workplace and thought about moving it onto youtube.

Who cares what I have done? It's not a pre-requisite to point out how hard it is to save money in HCOLAS..that's borderline common sense.

[dawnwes]

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually you ignored my entire post about HCOLA versus LCOLA and other factors Singuy. Go back and read my questions about how do you propose fixing HCOLA for people who are "service" people?

Or more importantly what about people who are professional but not high paying? maybe a teacher, social worker, business person, graphic design, city planner, architect, etc. People with college degrees who just aren't high on the payscale? What do you propose for them?

I said sometime they stay for personal reasons. Help with kids, support of family, etc. There are so many factors that how do you propose they work around this? I know people who are firefighters, public servants, etc who have to live within certain boundaries for their jobs. They love their jobs and choose to stay put because of it. Do you suggest all people move to lower cost of living areas and not be fireman, cops, emts, etc? And then what would happen to people in HCOLA?

I can understand how it is easier to live in LCOLA since salaries aren't proportionately lower. But do you have a suggestion on what to do for people who don't make a lot and live in HCOLA?

[tripods68]

Sorry to be beat the horse...but I can't help myself.

1. California having the highest median income at 72k/year? Then after you add the extra consumption tax they charge, state tax, and recycling fees..the true income is not that much more than other places.

Because we pay sale taxes here that prevent people from reaching FI....it that what you mean?

So someone living in Montana, Oregon, or Washington state (no sales tax) would reach FI sooner that those living in California since we have sales tax.

2. Poverty is a mindset and perhaps I have used the wrong wording here.

Under Federal Poverty level for 2016 Income: A family of 4 income $23,850,
3 people $19,790

How about couples making $72K a year median salary, but live paycheck to paycheck because they have 2 kids, under your definition they live in poverty.
Another family makes $150K a year lives paycheck to paycheck because they have $400K home with pool, they are also living in poverty under your definition.

Who cares what I have done? It's not a pre-requisite to point out how hard it is to save money in HCOLAS..that's borderline common sense.

This was a fair questions since you are the one mentioned INTENTLY to help the poor get our of poverty So the people you work with that you help financial classes you consider them poor living in poverty. What is your workplace average salary ballpark, if you don't mind sharing..

[Singuy]

Actually you ignored my entire post about HCOLA versus LCOLA and other factors Singuy. Go back and read my questions about how do you propose fixing HCOLA for people who are "service" people?

Or more importantly what about people who are professional but not high paying? maybe a teacher, social worker, business person, graphic design, city planner, architect, etc. People with college degrees who just aren't high on the payscale? What do you propose for them?

I said sometime they stay for personal reasons. Help with kids, support of family, etc. There are so many factors that how do you propose they work around this? I know people who are firefighters, public servants, etc who have to live within certain boundaries for their jobs. They love their jobs and choose to stay put because of it. Do you suggest all people move to lower cost of living areas and not be fireman, cops, emts, etc? And then what would happen to people in HCOLA?

I can understand how it is easier to live in LCOLA since salaries aren't proportionately lower. But do you have a suggestion on what to do for people who don't make a lot and live in HCOLA?

In Beijing during the influx of business men and foreigners who wanted to concentrate in Beijing because of the 2008 Olympics economic boom, the government decided to set aside hundreds and thousands of houses for low income people while limiting foreigners by only allowing them to buy one and then later none at all.

House prices are beyond the normal citizens of Beijings now due to the crazy inflation of house prices..but at least there's a portion of houses that are protected from crazy market prices. It's one possible solution but it's definitely not very democratic in nature.

Another way is to lift restrictions ...currently certain cities in CA have massive amount of restrictions on building new houses (as in you can't build sky raisers..buildings can't be higher than 3 stories..or certain zones are forbidden to have newer houses within certain miles of the city).

If house prices cannot be fixed due to supply and demand..then what can you do besides me rambling on about how I think they need to reevaluated their options? The good news about this culture we have now is that paycheck to paycheck living is PERFECTLY FINE. Your parents are doing it, your neighbors are doing it, and your coworkers are doing it. No one is leaving because saving money is just not a priority..the expensive lifestyle is. There's a reason why SO MANY people in this country ends up having a hard time coughing up 1000 dollars for emergencies. It's almost common sense for people to save some money for emergencies..and yet only 38% of the population are doing it!

[Singuy]

Under Federal Poverty level for 2016 Income: A family of 4 income $23,850,
3 people $19,790




This was a fair questions since you are the one mentioned INTENTLY to help the poor get our of poverty So the people you work with that you help financial classes you consider them poor living in poverty. What is your workplace average salary ballpark, if you don't mind sharing..

My last student was 35, single, 2 kids..300k worth of student loans, over 20k worth of cc debt..uses government loan money to raise kids right now. All my technicians make 12 dollars/hr and have kids at home..not poverty line but close to it.

You think I teach to high income earners or something? You think they want to listen?

[tripods68]

My last student was 35, single, 2 kids..300k worth of student loans, over 20k worth of cc debt..uses government loan money to raise kids right now. All my technicians make 12 dollars/hr and have kids at home..not poverty line but close to it.

You think I teach to high income earners or something? You think they want to listen?

By your own admission you consider people living paycheck to paycheck regardless of income. So i don't see why they would't benefit from you teaching method. What type of principle are you teaching, Dave Ramsey or somebody else, maybe your own? Do you charge a fee or a free class?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

My last student was 35, single, 2 kids..300k worth of student loans, over 20k worth of cc debt..uses government loan money to raise kids right now.....

I'm trying to imagine what kind of government loan one gets to raise children. Do you mean they took out loans for school and spent it on their family rather than on school?

I think, though, that when you previously said "poor" you just meant "people who spend everything they earn by the time their next paycheck is due."
+ Is that correct?

I agree with Livingalmostlarge who has pointed out that there can be many reasons to continue living in high to moderate cost of living areas. But if you'd like people to consider moving or at least to change their way of living, how about trying to be inspiring rather than deprecating? You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, after all.

[Singuy]

By your own admission you consider people living paycheck to paycheck regardless of income. So i don't see why they would't benefit from you teaching method. What type of principle are you teaching, Dave Ramsey or somebody else, maybe your own? Do you charge a fee or a free class?

Free class, I spent about 4-5 hours and created my own power point and sit them down one and one for 2 hours, tailoring the class to their income and debts.

First I focus on taxes because no one understands taxes
Then I go over sample budgets of two made up individuals who takes two different paths, methods of paying off student loans, power of investments, retirement accounts, and common things that traps people into a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle(such as that stupid pre-approval letter you get for a house).

As for method, it's pretty much Dave Ramsey since it's what I have done and not Rich Dad Poor Dad. Dave Ramsey I feel like gives the person more control vs luck based.

[Singuy]

I'm trying to imagine what kind of government loan one gets to raise children. Do you mean they took out loans for school and spent it on their family rather than on school?

I think, though, that when you previously said "poor" you just meant "people who spend everything they earn by the time their next paycheck is due."
+ Is that correct?

I agree with Livingalmostlarge who has pointed out that there can be many reasons to continue living in high to moderate cost of living areas. But if you'd like people to consider moving or at least to change their way of living, how about trying to be inspiring rather than deprecating? You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, after all.

Yes, the student is taking the max out and using a portion of it plus CC to raise her kids.