US economy is getting regional; the middle class income is now regional as well

[sv2007]

I don't think HCOL are justified with the pay you get.

My house in NYC or Cali would be around 4-5 million dollars. My income will go from 130k/year to 150k/year, but my house increased by 8x. I wouldn't be able to afford the interest and property taxes alone with this income bump.

So if you are comparing apples to apples, I don't understand why anyone would stay in a HCOL.

It works for many people as houses are selling very quickly in the SF bay area, for example; and they aren't sold to investors but to local workers.

Many people move for better quality of life; usually if an area is comfortable, more people want to live there and that push up the property value.

The extra house cost is not all wasted since it's almost like a forced savings and can be cashed out (plus the tax deductions). Plus the appreciation in the bay area is very good.

HCOL areas should not be ignored just based on their cost (unless you simply cannot afford it). Quality of life should mean something; that's what we save for -- to enjoy life.

Another thing is that just looking at the current salary may not give a complete picture. There may exist job opportunities in a HCOL area like the bay area that's not available elsewhere (e.g. faster salary increases, better options/RSUs, startups, etc.)

[Singuy]

It works for many people as houses are selling very quickly in the SF bay area, for example; and they aren't sold to investors but to local workers.

Many people move for better quality of life; usually if an area is comfortable, more people want to live there and that push up the property value.

The extra house cost is not all wasted since it's almost like a forced savings and can be cashed out (plus the tax deductions). Plus the appreciation in the bay area is very good.

HCOL areas should not be ignored just based on their cost (unless you simply cannot afford it). Quality of life should mean something; that's what we save for -- to enjoy life.

Another thing is that just looking at the current salary may not give a complete picture. There may exist job opportunities in a HCOL area like the bay area that's not available elsewhere (e.g. faster salary increases, better options/RSUs, startups, etc.)

Am I really paying for quality of life tho? Lets see..I switch up my 4500 squareft lake house where I can jet ski daily and have my own THX theater room to a 2 bedroom 1200 squareft condo. In return I get....better weather and smog? I don't know, FL weather is pretty decent and I can see Disney fireworks across the lake...and we don't have a drought problem. I live walking distance to a 23 mile trail, and 5 miles from a trendy downtown area that's rated as the coolest downtown in Central Florida. Perhaps we have crappier schools compared to CA but still doesn't justify the 8x in price. I understand 2x or 3x, but 8X?!@

LCOL areas are so cheap that you can work on becoming a millionaire if you work at starbucks..good luck with HCOL areas.

Sometimes I feel like certain cities are equivalent to the value proposition of designer hand bags. Maybe you see the value in these cities but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I have been to San Diego. It was a nice area...but didn't blow my mind or anything.

[sv2007]

Am I really paying for quality of life tho? Lets see..I switch up my 4500 squareft lake house where I can jet ski daily and have my own THX theater room to a 2 bedroom 1200 squareft condo. In return I get....better weather and smog? I don't know, FL weather is pretty decent and Disney is just down the street...and we don't have a drought problem. I live walking distance to a 23 mile trail, and 5 miles from a trendy downtown area that's rated as the coolest downtown in Central Florida. Perhaps we have crappier schools compared to CA but still doesn't justify the 8x in price. I understand 2x or 3x, but 8X?!@

LCOL areas are so cheap that you can work on becoming a millionaire if you work at starbucks..good luck with HCOL areas.

Sometimes I feel like certain cities are equivalent to the value proposition of designer hand bags. Maybe you see the value in these cities but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

What I said refers to most people (i.e. in general), and people proved it by putting their money down (and a lot of it)

In your specific case, it may not work out.

BTW, as for outdoor activities SF bay area: inside 3-4hr's drive, one can do everything you listed, plus snow ski (lots of resorts in Tahoe, world class even), 5 road course racetracks (1 world stage), good surf breaks, great roads for motorcycling, bicycling (and mountain biking too, it's invented here), rock climbing (another world class location too). These are just things I do so I know, but there may be other things to do.

[sv2007]

However, the housing price is very high compared to salary in SF bay area. The way most people buy is with help from their company options/RSUs. So, one cannot strictly just check salary; the options and RSUs are a major part of a worker's total compensation.

[Singuy]

I feel like people just want the brand name of living in NYC or Cali..there's probably some un-quantifiable value to these areas just like how people here who lives in Windermere or Winter Park pays a premium just so when people ask them where they live, they can say "Winter Park".

[disneysteve]

I feel like people just want the brand name of living in NYC or Cali..there's probably some un-quantifiable value to these areas

I don't think it's so much a "brand name" as it is a certain lifestyle.

I can't speak for California but living in NYC puts you in one of the few places where you truly don't need to own a car. You have everything you need within walking distance or easily accessible via an excellent public transit system. You have every imaginable type of restaurant, world class shopping, Broadway theater, music, art, sports, etc.

In most locales, you need to travel some distance to get to all of those things. In NYC, it's all right there crammed into a relatively small geographic area.

[dawnwes]

I don't think HCOL are justified with the pay you get.

My house in NYC or Cali would be around 4-5 million dollars. My income will go from 130k/year to 150k/year, but my house increased by 8x. I wouldn't be able to afford the interest and property taxes alone with this income bump.

So if you are comparing apples to apples, I don't understand why anyone would stay in a HCOL.

Well, I can tell you that our salaries in LA were double what we can get here in NC. So, it could be that your salary would be double what you currently have.

I would move back to LA in a heartbeat if I could and if the family would agree to it. But the 4 of them LOVE it here and I am the only one who wants to move back.

There is always something to do. Always.

In the winter I can go snowskiing in the mountains on Monday and hit the beach on Tue (or heck, even Monday night!) I could even surf, but after a bad surfboarding accident years ago, I no longer have the desire to surf.

I can hit any number of activities on any given day. Museums, exhibits, amusement parks, historical areas, hiking, observatories, plays/musicals/opera, beach, unique restaurants, tourist attractions, boat trips, dinner cruises, and more.

And the job opportunities are more plentiful.

[Nika]

I don't think HCOL are justified with the pay you get.

My house in NYC or Cali would be around 4-5 million dollars. My income will go from 130k/year to 150k/year, but my house increased by 8x. I wouldn't be able to afford the interest and property taxes alone with this income bump.

So if you are comparing apples to apples, I don't understand why anyone would stay in a HCOL.

Because we like this lifestyle. I traveled and lived in many countries and I love the feel of NYC and the food!
I cannot believe what passes for food in most of the country (I traveled there too. Most meals are a caloric bomb of disappointment.). Now, granted there are plenty of crappy places in NYC, but if you live here, you find favorites, and there is always something new. Ethnic communities make for authentic good choices. Want good dim sum? hot pot? Flushing. We go for korean bbq in korea town in fort lee and we are spoiled by quality. Following by awesome Japanese deserts 15 minutes away. Soft serve black sesame ice cream? check, french pastries - actually fresh. Absolutely any place of the world you traveled, you can find a close to authentic place here. Not so in other cities.

There are also resources for kids, if you bother looking. For example Waive Hill, a beautiful park next to us has an excellent free art programme for small children every Saturday (and we go quite often). It is beautiful and they have different free activities. Many museums that receive any public funding, have "suggested admission". So while the suggested admission is high, you can pay whatever you want, including a quarter (like Museum of Natural history that is also 15 min away and DS is into these things right now.) There are awesome playgrounds and paid activities are unlimited. We get a few memberships and the price per trip ends up being very low. Public school takes them many places as well.

We travel a lot from NYC. This being an international gateway, airfare deals are abound. You can actually find low mileage awards with miles because there are so many flights and I've gotten really cheap tickets - like $320 to China or $150 to Iceland.

There are festivals and events. Foreign films at cultural centers, food festivals, art and music - everyone comes here. The energy and the vibe.

I thought I really wanted a big house with a yard, until we were asked to pet sit a friends' dog in NJ for 10 days and jumped at the chance(a friend knew we wanted to try out the area). They had a huge house with many bathrooms and yard, and we indulged in making bbq in the garden. But it is DEAD. You get tired of bbq. Few restaurants/cafes around just suck (and this was an affluent town). Shops suck. At 7pm it gets dark and feels like you should be asleep. By the end of day 5 I could not take it. It is like a twilight zone where time is frozen and your choices are exactly the same, day, after day, after day. Multiple bathrooms could not make up for it.

[disneysteve]

And the job opportunities are more plentiful.

This is so often overlooked when the topic of "why would anyone live in the city?" comes up. People go to the cities because that's where the jobs are. How many threads have we had on this site started by someone who was struggling financially and when responses suggested getting a 2nd job or better job, the answer was, "I live in a rural area and there's nothing around for miles so that's not an option."

If you need a job/money, you need to go where the jobs and money are. For the most part, that is the major metropolitan areas: NYC, Philly, Boston, D.C., L.A. etc. Nobody ever says, "I really need a job so I'm moving to Iowa."

[sv2007]

I feel like people just want the brand name of living in NYC or Cali..there's probably some un-quantifiable value to these areas just like how people here who lives in Windermere or Winter Park pays a premium just so when people ask them where they live, they can say "Winter Park".

You have to experience it first hand to really be able to even decide if a place is right for you, much less whether people are moving there just for the "brand name".

[Nika]

The problem is if you set the minimum wage too high you will price certain people out of work. Where are those who are priced out of work going to turn for assistance? That's right, the government. Not to mention that there are many minimum wage jobs out there today that no matter how proficiently performed can not yield enough value added labor to justify a wage that would be deemed livable to avoid government assistance.

Bottom line is you can't bypass the laws of supply and demand and increase purchasing power with the stroke of a pen.

Current system is not supply and demand. It is corporate welfare. We as taxpayers are subsidizing those businesses profits and their management's high wages and bonuses. Why should they be protected and hailed as the spirit of the country, and people who are working for artificially low wages be seen as leeches who live of public assistance?

Apply the same standard to a business as you do to an individual. People say "if you did not get any skills and education, than its your own fault and you deserve 8$ an hour, tough". Just say to business, in the same spirit, "if you cannot pay a wage where government would not have to subsidize your worker, your business model is not viable and deserves to die, tough." Than it would be supply and demand. And if subsidized childcare was not given to most service industry front line workers, the industry would not have much of a workforce. (and before we go on that tangent, the idea that the lower earning 30% of the country does not have a right to reproduce is not a sustainable nor enforceable solution).

[Singuy]

Okay so museums, hiking trails, music festivals, concentration of jobs and restaurants are not unique to Cali and NYC. Many many low cost huge mega cities offer the same at a third of the cost. Atl, Huston, Miami, Orlando, and the list goes on and on. You guys make it seem like everywhere else besides NYC and cities in Cali are small rural towns with nothing to do....

If you work for wall street or silicone valley then yeah..why else would you want any other city to live in? But these people are not the type who are trying to make their ends meet. We are talking about meat packers, coffee shop servers, etc etc. Honestly what the heck is 10/hr min wage going to do for you when your houses are 1.3 million a piece...or 500k in the ghetto(check out them house prices in Compton)....Congrats! You make double the salary!..oh wait..you are even MORE poor.

And no, I don't see anyone in my profession making 2x my current salary no matter what geographic location...and even at 2x the salary..I can only buy 1/5 of the same house in NYC vs here in Orlando.

[tripods68]

I escape east coast (Update NY) after High School. Hated weather/humidity and too much snow.

Cali living is about outdoors living and always sunshine (humidity please!). I'm not here to brag how good the weather here, or the lack of water/drought. There are negatives, traffic, crimes, earthquakes (have you seen San Andreas?...could happen, just sayin!). Bay area is nice place but way too promoted city.

Personally we prefer living in the Sacramento Valley/Mountain, plenty of jobs, affordability is going up but not as high in the bay area. Not as crowded, excellent to raise your family. LA...well its LA...Good luck with that! If you want to be a STAR or like fake people, or be one ...LA is where you need to be.

Oh I didn't mention San Diego....way better than LA! Places along highway 1 PCH, Ventura to Santa Barbara, Pismo, up to Monterey & Santa Cruz are better living than LA! Heck travel north of San Francisco bay up to Mendicino, Yreka better living than LA. I have nothing respect to LA, I have family there...but the last time I was there....well never mind! Just sayin!

[dawnwes]

Okay so museums, hiking trails, music festivals, concentration of jobs and restaurants are not unique to Cali and NYC. Many many low cost huge mega cities offer the same at a third of the cost. Atl, Huston, Miami, Orlando, and the list goes on and on. You guys make it seem like everywhere else besides NYC and cities in Cali are small rural towns with nothing to do....

If you work for wall street or silicone valley then yeah..why else would you want any other city to live in? But these people are not the type who are trying to make their ends meet. We are talking about meat packers, coffee shop servers, etc etc. Honestly what the heck is 10/hr min wage going to do for you when your houses are 1.3 million a piece...or 500k in the ghetto(check out them house prices in Compton)....Congrats! You make double the salary!..oh wait..you are even MORE poor.

And no, I don't see anyone in my profession making 2x my current salary no matter what geographic location...and even at 2x the salary..I can only buy 1/5 of the same house in NYC vs here in Orlando.

They are different, very different. And you keep saying "Cali" and I don't know what you mean. Do you mean the entire state? It is a huge state, with a lot of diversity with huge cities and rural farms.

I am specifically talking about LA because that we where I lived. I can't find museums to even come close on the East Coast other than NYC and Washington D.C.

You obviously don't want to live in NYC or LA, so don't move, but don't berate those of us who actually thing they are great places, lived in them just fine, and don't care for flat land with 1000% humidity and heat and bugs. Orlando isn't my cup of tea, although I will visit Disney World, but that is about it, and not in the summer.

But if you love it, stay. Really, it isn't going to matter to anyone else.

My husband and I made good salaries in LA and were doing fine. Yes, we have a larger house here in NC, but it just isn't the same to me.

[dawnwes]

I escape east coast (Update NY) after High School. Hated weather/humidity and too much snow.

Cali living is about outdoors living and always sunshine (humidity please!). I'm not here to brag how good the weather here, or the lack of water/drought. There are negatives, traffic, crimes, earthquakes (have you seen San Andreas?...could happen, just sayin!). Bay area is nice place but way too promoted city.

Personally we prefer living in the Sacramento Valley/Mountain, plenty of jobs, affordability is going up but not as high in the bay area. Not as crowded, excellent to raise your family. LA...well its LA...Good luck with that! If you want to be a STAR or like fake people, or be one ...LA is where you need to be.

Oh I didn't mention San Diego....way better than LA! Places along highway 1 PCH, Ventura to Santa Barbara, Pismo, up to Monterey & Santa Cruz are better living than LA! Heck travel north of San Francisco bay up to Mendicino, Yreka better living than LA. I have nothing respect to LA, I have family there...but the last time I was there....well never mind! Just sayin!

Um, no. LA isn't full of fake people. That is a stereotype, but not the norm. Most people are just regular Joes and we all find people who are like we are.

I was a school counselor in and inner city LA high school.

No modeling, no trying to get into the business, no fake.

And my children were born in LA.