Who's seeking refuge in Canada or abroad if Trump wins?

[FLA]

sometimes the "woe is me" is legit. The elderly and disabled who rely on SS, people on Obamacare, single moms with subsidized day care so they can work, minimum wage workers, all have a horse in this race and a GOP President and Congress could really hurt them. If you are disabled, you can't exactly go out and work harder and have more income streams. Nor can you if you are 85 yrs old and have to choose between prescriptions or food. Just because who is in charge doesn't necessarily affect the upper-middle class and those above, does not mean those below are not affected.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

sometimes the "woe is me" is legit. The elderly and disabled who rely on SS, people on Obamacare, single moms with subsidized day care so they can work, minimum wage workers, all have a horse in this race and a GOP President and Congress could really hurt them. If you are disabled, you can't exactly go out and work harder and have more income streams. Nor can you if you are 85 yrs old and have to choose between prescriptions or food. Just because who is in charge doesn't necessarily affect the upper-middle class and those above, does not mean those below are not affected.

Democrats could really hurt them too, by taking money from people who legitimately need it and giving it to deadbeats. Or by overwhelming the system with poor immigrants. Or by damaging the economy. Etc. etc.

So both can do damage to poor people.

[FLA]

I'm not worried about deadbeats. I'm sure you've heard SNAP has a 1-3% record of feeding deadbeats. And if you read up on welfare it is not easy to get or to keep for very long. It is laughable to worry more about a Dem President than a GOP one.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I don't think that there are as many deadbeats as people believe. I do know that they are a lot of people still without health insurance (unaffordable) and there are a lot of people with subpar insurance and one step away from homelessness or bankruptcy because of the health care system.

If Donald trump wins while I don't like him and wouldn't vote for him, I'll stay in the US and see what happens. That would be very interesting.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'm not worried about deadbeats. I'm sure you've heard SNAP has a 1-3% record of feeding deadbeats. And if you read up on welfare it is not easy to get or to keep for very long. It is laughable to worry more about a Dem President than a GOP one.

Not just deadbeats. Have you seen how much public pensions cost to our budgets?

Another out of control item that is bankrupting cities, towns, and states.

[ua_guy]

Democrats could really hurt them too, by taking money from people who legitimately need it and giving it to deadbeats. Or by overwhelming the system with poor immigrants. Or by damaging the economy. Etc. etc.

So both can do damage to poor people.

What does it take for the average Republican to believe that the economy is actually doing well?

That's not a gotcha, or a trick question, or a setup for a punch line. Seriously, what does it take? Because even when numbers look good, the GOP is saying the US economy is still a travesty as a result of failed, partisan policies.

Not just deadbeats. Have you seen how much public pensions cost to our budgets?

Another out of control item that is bankrupting cities, towns, and states.

What do you think should be done about the pensions?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

What does it take for the average Republican to believe that the economy is actually doing well?

That's not a gotcha, or a trick question, or a setup for a punch line. Seriously, what does it take? Because even when numbers look good, the GOP is saying the US economy is still a travesty as a result of failed, partisan policies.

I agree with you 100% that the economy is now doing relatively well. I'm not a Trump fan.

What do you think should be done about the pensions?

They will need to be brought to realistic levels or grandfathered in and converted to 403(b)'s going forward.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No but the economy is doing well after the 2007-2008 crash. But what to do about pensions?

Well I have mixed feelings. Grandfather in and reform is good, because it is expensive. But you also promised people X, Y, and Z. It's not just the state and local government, but the federal government and military have pensions. How do you propose we reform them to make them solvent?

Truth is how many firefighters, policemen, corrections officers, etc would we get if we didn't offer generous salaries and pensions? I wonder what would happen if the benefits for certain jobs weren't there, would people still do them? Would people be in the military without a pension?

[helpfirstdollarsecond]

Hold your horses

So what do you ppl have so much against Trump? Let a former Muslim Pakistani by genetics and Canadian by citizenship (And liver) give you a little reality check.

I really don't get it . . .

1. He's putting up his own money. When was the last time anyone of you put up your own for a cause you believed in?

2. He doesn't need to do this. He's a billionaire. That's 999 Millionaires + 1. He's a celebrity, nice family, etc. He can do whatever he wants but he chooses to run for the President.

3. He's the only NON Politician in the race.

4. America needs MONEY. This guy is all about financial success. He's right about putting Tariffs on countries who have been ripping the US off.

5. He's banning a group of ppl that our silly PM (Trudeau) let in like crazy. I believe the number before June would be 50,000 Syrians. I lived in Dubai for 3 years and before moving to Canada (About 15 years ago), I was there for 15. I can assure you the biggest number of anchor babies / immigration abuse and just problems in general come from people from this region. Indians / Pakistanis / Arabs. The entire Middle East is BRAINWASHED with Islam. The most poor countries besides the obvious oil rich countries are a crap hole or worst. So if Trump wants to put a temp ban on them? What is the problem? When was the last time you woke up and said "You know what? I know what my city is missing . . . MORE MUSLIMS! " Gimme a break . . . Plus this ban will force muslims to start fixing their own issues. Lots of good ppl there but Islam suppresses their so called 'liberal' voices.

6. Say whatever you want but remember, if America succeeds, so will the rest of the world. Europe is a disaster right now . . .

7. GROW UP and be part of this great movement. Americans have been more then compassion for the longest time (Always first in providing aid no matter where the natural disaster occurred and the list goes on) - You guys don't have to prove anything.

8. Only a handful of countries (US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) is where all these South Asian / Middle Eastern immigrants want to run to. They have no intention of building their own cities or their communities. They will leach the US and Western civilizations till they are done and move on to the next. Especially muslims because muslims have a key phrase in the quran . . . "Life is a test, real life starts in the after life". This is not some Jihadi statement, moderate muslims (Moderate lol) believe in that too. If you believed in the after life more then this life, would you care or about give two ****s about this planet?

Trump is 100% right. You guys have NO CLUE who you are fighting . . .

[ua_guy]

So what do you ppl have so much against Trump? Let a former Muslim Pakistani by genetics and Canadian by citizenship (And liver) give you a little reality check.

I really don't get it . . .

1. He's putting up his own money. When was the last time anyone of you put up your own for a cause you believed in?

2. He doesn't need to do this. He's a billionaire. That's 999 Millionaires + 1. He's a celebrity, nice family, etc. He can do whatever he wants but he chooses to run for the President.

3. He's the only NON Politician in the race.

4. America needs MONEY. This guy is all about financial success. He's right about putting Tariffs on countries who have been ripping the US off.

5. He's banning a group of ppl that our silly PM (Trudeau) let in like crazy. I believe the number before June would be 50,000 Syrians. I lived in Dubai for 3 years and before moving to Canada (About 15 years ago), I was there for 15. I can assure you the biggest number of anchor babies / immigration abuse and just problems in general come from people from this region. Indians / Pakistanis / Arabs. The entire Middle East is BRAINWASHED with Islam. The most poor countries besides the obvious oil rich countries are a crap hole or worst. So if Trump wants to put a temp ban on them? What is the problem? When was the last time you woke up and said "You know what? I know what my city is missing . . . MORE MUSLIMS! " Gimme a break . . . Plus this ban will force muslims to start fixing their own issues. Lots of good ppl there but Islam suppresses their so called 'liberal' voices.

6. Say whatever you want but remember, if America succeeds, so will the rest of the world. Europe is a disaster right now . . .

7. GROW UP and be part of this great movement. Americans have been more then compassion for the longest time (Always first in providing aid no matter where the natural disaster occurred and the list goes on) - You guys don't have to prove anything.

8. Only a handful of countries (US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) is where all these South Asian / Middle Eastern immigrants want to run to. They have no intention of building their own cities or their communities. They will leach the US and Western civilizations till they are done and move on to the next. Especially muslims because muslims have a key phrase in the quran . . . "Life is a test, real life starts in the after life". This is not some Jihadi statement, moderate muslims (Moderate lol) believe in that too. If you believed in the after life more then this life, would you care or about give two ****s about this planet?

Trump is 100% right. You guys have NO CLUE who you are fighting . . .

Let an American born, European-descent, American citizen with an American liver, give you a reality check.

There is no place in this world for racism and hatred, and the sooner we realize we're all PEOPLE that have basic needs, who should be able to live without fear or threat of violence, the better. Trump is a fascist, and fascist leaders have a very poor track record on the global stage.

I'm with Vincente Fox who said, "I'm not going to pay for that ****ing wall".

[tripods68]

Trump is 100% right. You guys have NO CLUE who you are fighting . . .

Its easy to say all that since you live in Canada...are you a socialist?

[FLA]

Let an American born, European-descent, American citizen with an American liver, give you a reality check.

There is no place in this world for racism and hatred, and the sooner we realize we're all PEOPLE that have basic needs, who should be able to live without fear or threat of violence, the better. Trump is a fascist, and fascist leaders have a very poor track record on the global stage.

I'm with Vincente Fox who said, "I'm not going to pay for that ****ing wall".

thank you for saying what needed saying, I've never seen racism on these pages

as to the OP, money every month goes to Bernie, the non-fascist candidate, I am proud to sign those checks

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

. When was the last time you woke up and said "You know what? I know what my city is missing . . . MORE MUSLIMS! " Gimme a break . . .

Our city had lost about 10% of its population during one federal census period, except for one thing: Muslims settling here. I see it as those people saved this faltering city. They needed to come here, but we did not know how much we needed them until they arrived and immediately became part of the fabric of local society. We are better for those immigrants.

So yes, I am more than glad to welcome them! They fit in very nicely. They opened businesses that were sorely needed such as small groceries, neighborhood produce markets, home repair and renovation, bakeries, roofing, masonry, plastering, restaurants, second hand shops, auto repair. Some came with some skills that were dying off here and much needed in a city with an older housing stock. (Do you know how hard it used to be to find a stone mason who could artfully match, cut, and place stone for a 130 year old retaining wall? Or someone who knows how to make solid repairs or extensions to real plaster rather than slapping up cheap drywall?)

Their kids settled into school very well and are becoming professionals such as lawyers, real estate, electricians, plumbers, doctors, nurses, all kinds of allied health, teachers, engineers. The way I see it, the settling in has been fairly seamless.

[FLA]

the name 'helpfirstdollarsecond" is striking me as a misnomer

[Mjenn]

UK is ranked #1 in that commonwealth study, in everything, which would make it seem like it's a health care paradise, but I've simply never heard of anyone going to the UK for their absolutely wonderful stupendous healthcare. My brother and his wife live in the UK, I've never heard them say anything about. I post on a sleep apnea group, and the people I heard there talking about the UK system aren't exactly praising it.

My view is that people often vote with their feet.

This is a misrepresentative data because the NHS - the British health care system -- is a national health care system and does not cater to health care tourists or those outside the tax system. The reason you don't know anyone who has gone there is because the system does not offer services to outsiders unless in rare cases.

If you were injured or fell ill in Britain, you would receive health care, and you would be billed accordingly, but there aren't a great deal of private actors in Britain. Those who are 'paying to vote with their feet' will obviously stay in the U.S. because the U.S. is top in the world in specialty areas for those who can afford such care. Britain is often at the top of the list because it offers a standard of care to all British residents, that is quite high.

I live in Europe and am covered by a national system. We are covered by national insurance to go abroad if we have to wait more than 3 months for a non-emergency treatment. Most people go to countries in Eastern Europe because they have more private care and it is easy to get a quick appointment -- but it is also expensive compared to here. Few go to England only because they just don't offer it. Just like few people come to this country because the system is not designed to take in outsiders.

We have a lot of private doctors here, but they are also covered by national insurance (I just tell the government that private doctor A is my doctor and I am covered). As most doctors are used to billing the government and not private parties, there is not much of a set pay structure to deal with outsiders, and outsiders would not be allowed to 'cut the line' because that would 'be unfair' even if they were paying more (socialist principles = the one with the most money doesn't get better health care than everyone else just because they have the most money --- everyone gets access to the same healthcare -- if you want to pay for other treatment and skip the line you have to go to another country).