Have you had your flu shot?

[Nutria]

Your mention was inappropriately worded. That's why it was removed.

Inappropriate or not, your edit materially altered the content of my post. You could just have easily replaced my original words with "religious exception".

[creditcardfree]

I was not an "early adopter" of flu shots. I was just talking to someone yesterday who said she has been getting them for 20+ years. I didn't even know they had been around that long. I think I've been getting them for around 10 years?

I used to be more blase about it, and sometimes wait until December to get mine.

Now that I work in very close proximity with lots of people considered "vulnerable populations" (young children, pregnant women, elderly) I feel a moral responsibility to get my flu shot early in the season. I also got a shingles vaccination as soon as I turned 50, even though I read up and realized that they aren't even that effective. God forbid I not do it and unknowingly infect a very young child or pregnant woman. I would rather take the risk of something happening to me than transfer that risk to them.

And to keep it about finance: Got mine at CVS, fully covered by my health plan.

My mother had a bad reaction from one in the 1970s. She has not had one since and has not had the flu either. 40 Plus years of not having the flu without the vaccine. That is pretty significant if you ask me.

I'd rather skip work IF I get the flu and avoid infecting others. I see more risk in the ingredients than giving someone the flu. Most people recover from the flu, than die. And most that die have other underlying conditions. The CDC lumps flu and pneumonia deaths together. False reporting much? What are the REAL flu deaths. I seen possibly only 500. I've seen reports of more harm from flu vaccines than that.

I will never get the shingles vaccine. One would not even be needed if we didn't vaccinate for chickenpox. Research it. More shingles since we started vaccinating. In fact, if someone I know gets the chickenpox I'd like to be expose, that is a NATURAL immune boost.

[creditcardfree]

What upsets me is the people who don't get vaccinated based on internet nonsense rather than actual science or because a friend of a friend once had a reaction that might possibly have been due to a vaccine they received. Do people have bad reactions to vaccines? Absolutely. Do people get bleeding ulcers from aspirin? Absolutely. Do people have anaphylactic reactions to penicillin? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean vaccines or aspirin or penicillin are evil and shouldn't be used anymore.

We live in an age where people are increasingly anti-science. That's what upsets me as someone with extensive scientific education and 25 years of experience in the field. Years ago, myths and old wives tales would pass down in a family but today, the internet and cable tv and social media spread those myths like wildfire and it's much harder to tell fact from fiction.

Specifically which internet nonsense and myths do you mean?

I have read the actual science. Vaccine inserts, science research on PubMed. Are you relying only on the CDC and the standard of care guidance provided? You are aware that many medical journals are getting their funding from pharmaceutical companies? Many journals are reporting the science that universities have produced, which the pharmaceutical companies have funded. And honestly how many hours of vaccine education do you have? I've been reading for hours a day for almost two years. I've read that many doctors didn't learn what I have uncovered. I do hope I don't have more vaccine education than you, but I'm skeptical that the average primary doctor does.

I also rely on my instincts, which I have found to serve me well. My instinct says we were designed with an immune system. Man does not need to interfere with this. Wash hands. Eat well. Quarantine when necessary.

I do appreciate your respect for your patients right to choose. We need doctor's like you to stand up for that right in all scenarios. For example, California SB277 should have had doctor's stand up against this bill. Individuals should always have the final say in what medical procedures happen to them. Humans should always have autonomy. It shouldn't only be up to a doctor to provide a medical exemption for example.

[SavingMoneyGoals]

I never got the flu shot because the majority of my friends who got it at some point in their lives, they ended getting more sick than previous winter when they did not.

I see a homeopath every month and she gave me homeopathic remedies which are all natural against the flu just in case.

[FLA]

I got my flu shot because I believe in them and herd immunity but also because my mother is slowly dying from an end stage disease and is allergic to the flu shot. Because she can't be protected and the flu would kill her, anyone who wants to see her has to have been vaccinated or tough luck, they don't get to visit her. Visitors also have to wash their hands, something very important during cold and flu season.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Specifically which internet nonsense and myths do you mean?

I have read the actual science. Vaccine inserts, science research on PubMed. Are you relying only on the CDC and the standard of care guidance provided? You are aware that many medical journals are getting their funding from pharmaceutical companies? Many journals are reporting the science that universities have produced, which the pharmaceutical companies have funded. And honestly how many hours of vaccine education do you have? I've been reading for hours a day for almost two years. I've read that many doctors didn't learn what I have uncovered. I do hope I don't have more vaccine education than you, but I'm skeptical that the average primary doctor does.

I also rely on my instincts, which I have found to serve me well. My instinct says we were designed with an immune system. Man does not need to interfere with this. Wash hands. Eat well. Quarantine when necessary.

I do appreciate your respect for your patients right to choose. We need doctor's like you to stand up for that right in all scenarios. For example, California SB277 should have had doctor's stand up against this bill. Individuals should always have the final say in what medical procedures happen to them. Humans should always have autonomy. It shouldn't only be up to a doctor to provide a medical exemption for example.

CCF I have to say that I respectfully disagree that reading for 2 years is expertise. Also I've read what you read and I've pointed out the problem with a lot of what you are reading is published in regular magazines and opinion pieces with n=1. Do you understand the difference between opinion and more rigorous analysis and how the analysis of data is done? And how opinions of observations often by dr even are not the same thing? And how statistical analysis of the data in these articles are evaluated?

Further what journals are you suggesting is bought for by the pharma companies? Who is suggesting that universities are bought by pharma companies? Have you actually read from the inserts the articles annontated? Have you ever been published or even done a science experiment? Have you any idea what goes into an article? How it's reviewed?

Do you fully understand the difference between a trial done in humans, basic research, and how it translates and moves from cells into humans? Do you understand basic immune system cytokine cascade? Why it's being studied and all the different angles about it? What is being targeted and why? What is an autoimmune disease and everything we don't understand about them?

I won't disagree that a person has a right to choose. But to claim more knowledge than those in the field seems presumptous.

I think you should go back to school and go into public health and do a thesis on why vaccines are bad. Do the research and publish it. Gather the studies and show who is saying it's bad and the research they have to back it up. Get an advisor and gather data and prove your claims. Start by reading papers that have data versus opinion. Then it'll be a valid argument instead of opinion.

But like I've said I've read some of your articles you've posted and all of them haven't been linked to actual studies but have been strong opinion pieces. They haven't been articles showing data analysis of trials showing the negative claims being made. So it seems wrong to claim that the articles you've read are all data driven. They aren't.

If you are very serious about vaccine try going to a vaccine conference and seeing what researchers in the field have to say. Ask them questions and they will happily answer you. Further if that's too expensive start by going to local university and seeing if any professors are doing vaccine research. Volunteer in the lab washing dishes and start learning hands on how research happens. They love free labor. Go with an open mind. In fact also ask to join their journal club. Then read the articles chosen and be ready to poke holes and see what they think. I think you'll be shocked reading actual analysis and how people sit there and find problems even with published works. But at least you'll see the difference between opinion and data articles.

[FLA]

after my friend (in his early 50s), who just happened to not get the flu shot one year, got a "cold", that then turned into flu and he died as doctors tried unsuccessfully to save him, I will never not get the flu shot. I was shocked, he was not a frail elderly person, he did not have chronic illness, I'm still in shock when I think about it.

[LuckyRobin]

I used to get the flu shot. From the time I was 15 until the time I was 35, I got one every year. I would always get a rash from it and within 72 hours I was sick with flu-like symptoms for 2 to 3 weeks that left me bedridden for at least a week. I would not know until years later that this was because I had both a chicken egg allergy (flu shot is grown in eggs) that caused the rash and an autoimmune disease, so my immune system does not react like a normal person's. Of the 20 years I got the flu shot, I still got the flu 8 times, diagnosed by a doctor, with 5 of those times turning into pneumonia.

I have not had a flu shot in 12 years. I have had the flu diagnosed one time during those 12 years. I have not had pneumonia in the last 8 years, since I got the pneumonia shot.

So I don't really know about its efficacy in other people, just in my own case. I know that it didn't really seem to make a difference in how often I got the flu. I think it actually lowered my ability to fight the flu and I actually got it more often. It's not supposed to work that way. But again, with my autoimmune disease, I don't react normally to vaccines. My rheumatologist recommends I don't get the flu shot, because of what it does to agitate my immune system.

The flu shot only protects against the two strains deemed most likely 18 months ago to be active currently. During that time those strains have mutated, lowering but not eliminating the vaccine's effectiveness. But if any of the other strains of flu are the ones that break out, it does nothing against them. It's a roll of the dice and getting the shot does not mean you won't get the flu. It just means you are less likely, with a normal, healthy immune system, to get those two strains of the flu that were picked for the vaccine, and you have a decent chance of fighting it off and not having as bad a case of it if you do get the flu.

[disneysteve]

I had both a chicken egg allergy (flu shot is grown in eggs) that caused the rash and an autoimmune disease

As I said before, there are certainly people who shouldn't get the flu shot. And that makes it even more important that those who can get it do so. It helps protect those who can't get it. That's the whole point of herd immunity.

The decisions should always be based on science, though, not on opinion or instinct or anecdotes but on science. You have a scientific reason not to be vaccinated - you are allergic to the vaccine.