So let's hear the pros and cons of LTC insurance for me

[TexasHusker]

I am 50, my wife is 46. My dad has Alzheimers and is in assisted living. He's 77. My wife's twin sister has had two traumatic head injuries plus a complicated brain surgery many years ago to remove a pineal gland cyst. It is thought that because of these, she is now in the early-onset Alzheimers stage.

Now, we have a net worth of around $2 million. We earn around $300K per year from our businesses that we are only passively involved in.

Kids will be going to college in 2 years, so we will have 8 years of college expenditures.

Looks like we could get really good LTC insurance for around $400 per month for us combined.

Part of me says we have plenty of net worth and income (unless our world completely collapsed, which is a possibility for everyone) to absorb a $70K per year expense like a nursing home, thought it certainly wouldn't be pleasant.

If I were to have early onset or some other calamity, I would obviously be disabled, and SS would pay $2700 per month, which would be roughly half of the nursing home amount. That doesn't apply to my wife - she will not get SS because she was a teacher and I invested her teacher retirement in income producing real estate.

At age 63, I also believe I will collect the maximum allowable SS benefit - I think that might be around $1700 per month in today's dollars. Again, wife won't collect any because she was a teacher and I invested her retirement in real estate, which generates income currently.

So...do I want to start spending $5000 a year for the next 20-30 years for something that I might not ever use? Or just rat hole said amount and use that plus our income to pay for nursing home expenses, should they arise?

[Outdoorsygal]

It's been some years but when I looked into it, well long term care is a misnomer. It is short term care. Why? Because there is no guarantee of re-newal. If you are diagnosed with Alzheimers, well they'll know. And as you age, the following year or two when re-newal comes up, they won't accept you. So much for long term care. Some companies offer Health Savings Accounts which can be spent on Long Term Care. You will also save on Taxes otherwise removed from your paychecks.

As you age, it is best to make friends with people who aren't as financially well off as you. It's usually better to have someone you trust caring for you or your wife than strangers in a nursing home, and cheaper. For now, research health and see which foods prevent alzheimers disease. Food is medicine. Eat organic and exercise. This is just my humble opinion

[Outdoorsygal]

New brain cells (neurons) were shown on brain scans in London during a clinical trial. You can see how she shows new brain cells (neurons) had doubled due to a small amount of red wine being added directly to brain cells in the lab. She refers to something called Resveratrol as the active ingredient forming new brain cells and new memory. fThe show is called SUPERFOODS The real story of Tomatoes, soybeans and red wine. We watched it on Vodlocker. The wine story is the last one. The Doctor doesn't know the exact intake but says a small glass of red one every other day seems reasonable to increase brain function. Just a tidbit

[FLA]

as a former hospice nurse, I got to see LTC ins in action. The better policies were great, paying for enough aide time that a patient could stay in their own home rather than a nursing home. Or quickly paying out when it came time for a nursing home so a patient could get into a good nursing home. Other policies required so much proof that their requirements were met, the person died before they even got to use the benefit. So I would carefully research who has the higher quality policies.

I know I've read in several places that if your assets are over xyz amt, you probably don't need it. I just don't remember the numbers.

in the end, all I can say is when our team heard a family say they had a LTC policy, we breathed a sigh of relief. I'd say the vast majority of patients did not have it and did not have the assets to pay for adequate aide time at home. It was family members cobbling together their available time and filling in with some private hire that they really couldn't afford. Not an easy road to go down.

I'm curious, why won't your wife receive SS benefits? Feel free to not answer if I'm being too nosy!

[Thrif-t]

My DH has Alzheimer's on his side of the family, both set's of grandparents got it, his mom had it and now his dad has it :-(. I was able to buy a LTC policy through my works benefit plan. I have a plan that will pay for 3 years in a nursing home with a yearly inflation rider. I was also able to prepay this plan in 10 years. So far I've paid in 6 yrs and have another 4 to go. After that I no longer have monthly premiums. Its a little more expensive but I figure it will save me in the long run from yearly rate hikes.

If you do get one I'd look into pre-paying a plan and not monthly from now until you need it. I read too many horror stories of people having to drop their plan and lost all their premiums because they couldn't afford it anymore with all the rate hikes.

[Outdoorsygal]

as a former hospice nurse, I got to see LTC ins in action. The better policies were great, paying for enough aide time that a patient could stay in their own home rather than a nursing home. Or quickly paying out when it came time for a nursing home so a patient could get into a good nursing home. Other policies required so much proof that their requirements were met, the person died before they even got to use the benefit. So I would carefully research who has the higher quality policies.

I know I've read in several places that if your assets are over xyz amt, you probably don't need it. I just don't remember the numbers.

in the end, all I can say is when our team heard a family say they had a LTC policy, we breathed a sigh of relief. I'd say the vast majority of patients did not have it and did not have the assets to pay for adequate aide time at home. It was family members cobbling together their available time and filling in with some private hire that they really couldn't afford. Not an easy road to go down.

I'm curious, why won't your wife receive SS benefits? Feel free to not answer if I'm being too nosy!

If it's ok to ask, how long ago were you a hospice nurse? Just curious but it seemed with my research the LTC policies used to be really good but aren't so much any more.
I looked into one for us a few years ago

[TexasHusker]

as a former hospice nurse, I got to see LTC ins in action. The better policies were great, paying for enough aide time that a patient could stay in their own home rather than a nursing home. Or quickly paying out when it came time for a nursing home so a patient could get into a good nursing home. Other policies required so much proof that their requirements were met, the person died before they even got to use the benefit. So I would carefully research who has the higher quality policies.

I know I've read in several places that if your assets are over xyz amt, you probably don't need it. I just don't remember the numbers.

in the end, all I can say is when our team heard a family say they had a LTC policy, we breathed a sigh of relief. I'd say the vast majority of patients did not have it and did not have the assets to pay for adequate aide time at home. It was family members cobbling together their available time and filling in with some private hire that they really couldn't afford. Not an easy road to go down.

I'm curious, why won't your wife receive SS benefits? Feel free to not answer if I'm being too nosy!

My wife only worked a few years as a teacher - she has spent most of her adult years as a stay at home mom. When you are a teacher, you pay into a private retirement fund - not SS - therefore you don't receive SS. Even if she had paid into SS, her benefits would have been negligible.

[FLA]

If it's ok to ask, how long ago were you a hospice nurse? Just curious but it seemed with my research the LTC policies used to be really good but aren't so much any more.
I looked into one for us a few years ago

I was a hospice nurse for 11 yrs and became disabled and left for good last June. I think it takes a lot of research because like I said, some people died before they even got help and it was tons of red tape for the spouse at a time when that was the last thing they needed.

[FLA]

My wife only worked a few years as a teacher - she has spent most of her adult years as a stay at home mom. When you are a teacher, you pay into a private retirement fund - not SS - therefore you don't receive SS. Even if she had paid into SS, her benefits would have been negligible.

thanks, I never knew that

[snafu]

I suggested looking at the pros and cons of LTC insurance as the details specifically apply to you both. What is the family history of longevity? It's time to assess your health today and going forward, particularly heart 'diseases.' Genetic testing offers some clues, not yet well refined but improving. Current thinking says evidence of onset Dementia/Alzheimer's after 85 y/o is huge. Head trauma is another negative marker... likely affecting the twin? Was your dad showing symptoms by 60 y/o? Has his blood work included APOE-e4?

Save More,Spend Less's SA blog outlining her experience with her mom in Assisted Living certainly replicated the anecdotal evidence I've noted with friends, extended family and neighbours in this [very old] complex. With the population percentage of seniors growing, I hope there will be huge improvements in AL and Nursing Home standards. What I see is abysmal.

DH and I have concluded we would be happier in place, at home, likely having downsizing further from [townhouse style] condo to apartment. It's my plan to sponsor a Filipino home care provider as soon as we have home management problems. [I note that the majority of LPN hospital and Nursing Home care givers are from the Philippines] Realistically, I anticipate using our excellent hospice care..

[TexasHusker]

I suggested looking at the pros and cons of LTC insurance as the details specifically apply to you both. What is the family history of longevity? It's time to assess your health today and going forward, particularly heart 'diseases.' Genetic testing offers some clues, not yet well refined but improving. Current thinking says evidence of onset Dementia/Alzheimer's after 85 y/o is huge. Head trauma is another negative marker... likely affecting the twin? Was your dad showing symptoms by 60 y/o? Has his blood work included APOE-e4?

Save More,Spend Less's SA blog outlining her experience with her mom in Assisted Living certainly replicated the anecdotal evidence I've noted with friends, extended family and neighbours in this [very old] complex. With the population percentage of seniors growing, I hope there will be huge improvements in AL and Nursing Home standards. What I see is abysmal.

DH and I have concluded we would be happier in place, at home, likely having downsizing further from [townhouse style] condo to apartment. It's my plan to sponsor a Filipino home care provider as soon as we have home management problems. [I note that the majority of LPN hospital and Nursing Home care givers are from the Philippines] Realistically, I anticipate using our excellent hospice care..

Staying at home was no longer an option for my dad - he is single and was starting to do dangerous things - leaving the stove on, losing his money, wallet, keys, etc.

He is at a WONDERFUL ASL. He's got a very nice apartment that we custom painted and decorated (he calls it his cabin). He has French doors that open into a beautiful deck and garden area with a waterfall. It's a first class place. Of course it's not home, but he gets proper nutrition and medication there and has made friends.

He didn't have early onset - symptoms began at around 72. With the new drug therapies, his Alzheimer's is holding very steady - he scored only one point less on his memory test last week than he did when he moved in 16 months ago.

Our family history is pretty typical I guess - some folks has dementia some did not. A neurologist friend of mine said that 50 percent of the population has dementia at age 80, so flip a coin.

[frugal saver]

I'd say to seriously research the companies involved and what their plans do and do not cover.

Both my mother and her neighbor were encouraged to purchase LTC (different companies.) When the insurance was needed, both insurance companies did everything in the world to not have to pay. Towards the end of my mother's life, she was paying a yearly premium of about $7500, and then paying the full cost of the long-term care. They ended up never paying a dime.

[Like2Plan]

My wife only worked a few years as a teacher - she has spent most of her adult years as a stay at home mom. When you are a teacher, you pay into a private retirement fund - not SS - therefore you don't receive SS. Even if she had paid into SS, her benefits would have been negligible.

Will your wife receive a pension benefit from her school job? This is a complex issue, but if she does not have a pension coming from her school job she should be able to claim SS off your work record. Even if she worked long enough to qualify for a small pension (from a source that precluded her paying into SS), she still may qualify for SS derived from your work record--but, with an offset.
(You should consult your local SS office for more details.)

The problem with self insuring LTC is if all the savings/resources are used up on the first spouse leaving the second spouse impoverished. This would be especially bad if your spouse didn't have any pension/SS to live on, for example.

On the other hand LTC insurance is like the Wild West in terms of setting rates. DH and I have had LTC insurance 12 years. DH's has not increased, but I have have had changes to my policy twice. (Every 6 years). So far, I have been able to keep my same rate, but I have had to give up some of the automatic inflation protection. DH's company has asked for increases twice, but our state has turned them down.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I think you have to read the fine print of the LTC insurance. My mom looked into it but wasn't satisfied with the return on care. It can be hard to decipher amount, length of time, etc. Plus now I hear it's very expensive. And like my DH's uncle he just passed away and had LTC. Well he paid in and never drew on it.

[cornfieldj]

I've heard there is a relatively new kind of hybrid policy. Can be a life insurance payout or pay for long-term care. I'm sure it is very expensive, since insurance companies are good at designing products to be profitable.

If you google "long-term care hybrid life insurance" you'll get some hits. The website I write for, Bankrate, has a good story about it. There's also one on Forbes - kind of densely written.