We have taught people to enjoy spending instead of saving.

[GoodSteward]

I found this documentary called in Debt we Trust. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cltc4Og6HKo

Something someone said really made an impact on me, I guess cause it is so obvious. They said "We used to train children to enjoy savings. Today we are training them how to enjoy how to spend."

That pretty much sums up our financial problems today IMO. My goal was to teach my kids how to handle finances better, but I think the overall message will be how to enjoy watching movie grow rather than deplete.

[Nutria]

They said "We used to train children to enjoy savings. Today we are training them how to enjoy how to spend."

Our economy is driven by consumer spending. (That's no deep secret.)

How do you make such an economy grow?

Encourage (via advertising) people to spend more.

And when they have no more money to spend? Loan it too them. (Just like in that Bank Of America commercial you watched on YT from 60 years ago.)

It's that simple.

[GoodSteward]

Yes, it is that simple. And I will make it simple to save!

[Nutria]

And I will make it simple to save!

You will?

[GoodSteward]

You will?

I will train my children to enjoy saving, and make it simple. Yes. As a parent, it is my job. I just hope they listen. lol

[TexasHusker]

I think there is also a good portion of folks out there who consider Dave Ramsey to be the pope of all things financial, and have come to idolize money in a way that is equally detestable to consumerism. That is, "debt free" is the holy grail and comes before all else. Dave Ramsey and others cloak all of this under a guise of self-righteousness and piety. Furthermore, there is a certain hubris being carried by many of the "good steward" sort, that they have all things financial completely figured out, and the rest of us scmucks who beg to differ with some of his takes are complete idiots. I grow weary of his schtick.

The love of money takes many forms.

[Nutria]

I think there is also a good portion of folks out there who consider Dave Ramsey to be the pope of all things financial, and have come to idolize money in a way that is equally detestable to consumerism. That is, "debt free" is the holy grail and comes before all else. Dave Ramsey and others cloak all of this under a guise of self-righteousness and piety. Furthermore, there is a certain hubris being carried by many of the "good steward" sort, that they have all things financial completely figured out, and the rest of us scmucks who beg to differ with some of his takes are complete idiots. I grow weary of his schtick.

The love of money takes many forms.

Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, and followers gotta follow (whether it's a standard religion, or New Age woo, or anti-GMO, or a financial guru, or a cult like Amway).

(vBulletin needs a superscript tag.)

[pflyers85]

I think there is also a good portion of folks out there who consider Dave Ramsey to be the pope of all things financial, and have come to idolize money in a way that is equally detestable to consumerism. That is, "debt free" is the holy grail and comes before all else. Dave Ramsey and others cloak all of this under a guise of self-righteousness and piety. Furthermore, there is a certain hubris being carried by many of the "good steward" sort, that they have all things financial completely figured out, and the rest of us scmucks who beg to differ with some of his takes are complete idiots. I grow weary of his schtick.

The love of money takes many forms.

I think it is unwise for anyone to become dogmatic over one person's program or guidelines with debt and money because you are not challenging your beliefs and exposing yourself to all points of view. With that said I like a lot of what Dave has to say and I think many people would be better served to at least follow the idea of living on less than they make. When nearly 7 out of 10 people live paycheck-to-paycheck and are an emergency away from financial ruin they are definitely better off following something close to if not identical to his baby steps. He does come across as too preachy and too evangelical for my liking and I part ways with his broad opposition to credit cards but on balance I think he is a decent source. I emphasize source to go back to my first sentence. His perspective is helpful to many but one person's philosophy or approach with money shouldn't be the be all and end all.

[GoodSteward]

Furthermore, there is a certain hubris being carried by many of the "good steward" sort, that they have all things financial completely figured out, and the rest of us scmucks who beg to differ with some of his takes are complete idiots.

The love of money takes many forms.

I agree with you. I do listen to him and find a lot of wisdom with what he does because he addresses the emotional side to people's financial problems, which according to him is the biggest part of it. As a minister, I also deal first hand with people who make the ridiculous choices he best helps, and they will ask me for my advice. I often lean on his methods for them, because normally they need out of debt more than anything else. However, this is also why I like to lurk financial forums to get a better overall view to all financial viewpoints. He does help me keep my head in the game, and avoid new debt. I have found very little that justifies long-term debt for any reason for me, but I do see why some would not pay off a house early, etc. I plan to pay my house off early, and I don't plan to finance a car ever again. It's the way I would like to be, personally.

That being said, I also don't follow everything he preaches. I prefer a little higher EF as a minimum, and I also use a credit card to pay bills that I pay off monthly for rewards, and makes my check pattern easier to manage since I'm not completely off the check to check life.

As for the debt free life above all else, you must remember he associates strongly with evangelical views, and the Bible says the borrower is a slave to the lender. You also find in the OT that if Israel turned from God as a nation, part of the curse was that they would become the borrowers instead of the lenders. Due to the overall view of debt in the Bible, I would have to agree that debt free is a better situation to be in vs borrowing.

[Singuy]

I think there is also a good portion of folks out there who consider Dave Ramsey to be the pope of all things financial, and have come to idolize money in a way that is equally detestable to consumerism. That is, "debt free" is the holy grail and comes before all else. Dave Ramsey and others cloak all of this under a guise of self-righteousness and piety. Furthermore, there is a certain hubris being carried by many of the "good steward" sort, that they have all things financial completely figured out, and the rest of us scmucks who beg to differ with some of his takes are complete idiots. I grow weary of his schtick.

The love of money takes many forms.

What part of his program do you disagree with in a financial standpoint? Maybe you don't care about how he teaches people to invest(index /mutual funds) but that's pretty much investment for dummies method..this investment method has low risk and simple..in which the majority of his audiences can grasp. His other program wants people to be debt free..again..another simple concept. Maybe most of his audiences can't become deca-millionaires..but just not being part of the 76% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck is pretty good in my book.

He doesn't teach debt leveraging because it's too risky and most businesses fail. You don't think he uses debt leveraging to amplify his returns? He is richer than you for a reason....

[GoodSteward]

He doesn't teach debt leveraging because it's too risky and most businesses fail. You don't think he uses debt leveraging to amplify his returns? He is richer than you for a reason....

I believe he makes most of his money on his books and media, as well as other ventures like a McDonalds. He often comments about being debt free, including his business. Not sure how far into his other ventures that goes, but I would imagine since he doesn't use credit cards(as he often states) if people found out he had debt anywhere he would be considered a hypocrite.

[disneysteve]

They said "We used to train children to enjoy savings. Today we are training them how to enjoy how to spend."

My goal was to teach my kids how to handle finances better

I think there is also a good portion of folks out there who consider Dave Ramsey to be the pope of all things financial

How did a comment about teaching your kids to handle money well turn into a debate about Dave Ramsey? The original post had nothing at all to do with Dave Ramsey?

GoodSteward, I'm totally with you on this one. Most parents fail miserably when it comes to teaching their children proper money management. Of course, most of those parents don't have a clue themselves.

Her entire life, we have taught our daughter all about personal finance. I've done a series of "Dad's Financial Academy" lessons with her teaching her all about different forms of payment (cash, checks, debit, credit), how loans work, the basics of investing, etc. As a result, I now have a 20-year-old college junior who has over $10,000 in savings, a rewards credit card that she pays in full each month, a balanced checkbook, and a Roth IRA that she started when she was 17. She bought her first car a few weeks ago for cash (with some help from us and grandmom but still no car loan). Just the other day, she signed for her first student loan. Keep in mind that she has already completed 2 years of college debt-free and she fully intends to begin loan payments right away, not defer the loan until she graduates so a good chunk of what she borrows will be repaid while she's still in school.

And just last night, she asked for a "Financial Academy" lesson to go over all of the college financing stuff again just to be sure she understood it all.

[GoodSteward]

Her entire life, we have taught our daughter all about personal finance. I've done a series of "Dad's Financial Academy" lessons with her teaching her all about different forms of payment (cash, checks, debit, credit), how loans work, the basics of investing, etc. As a result, I now have a 20-year-old college junior who has over $10,000 in savings, a rewards credit card that she pays in full each month, a balanced checkbook, and a Roth IRA that she started when she was 17. She bought her first car a few weeks ago for cash (with some help from us and grandmom but still no car loan). Just the other day, she signed for her first student loan. Keep in mind that she has already completed 2 years of college debt-free and she fully intends to begin loan payments right away, not defer the loan until she graduates so a good chunk of what she borrows will be repaid while she's still in school.

And just last night, she asked for a "Financial Academy" lesson to go over all of the college financing stuff again just to be sure she understood it all.

This is great! I like hearing these kinds of reports. It gives me hope that they will listen, and follow. My 9-year-old told me yesterday that as soon as he buys a game he wants, he is saving for a truck. His priorities are in line, haha.

I told them about getting a savings account tomorrow, and they are excited. Do you happen to have any method you found works best to teach them? I don't want to go over their head.

[disneysteve]

Do you happen to have any method you found works best to teach them? I don't want to go over their head.

Number one is to be a good role model. Let them see what you do and how you do it. Explain how you earn money for doing your job and where that money goes.

When you use a debit card, explain that your bank will send the store that money from the savings that you have there.

When you use a credit card, explain that each month, you get a bill for everything you bought and you pay the bill in full. Show them the statement that lists each purchase and explain why only paying the minimum is a really bad idea. Use an online calculator to show what happens if you don't pay the bill in full.

One thing I did starting when she was about 9 was have her balance the family checkbook. It sharpened her math skills and it started exposing her to all of the costs involved in our lives - mortgage, car payment, utilities, travel, food, etc. I would point things out and she would ask questions. I'd expand on topics based on her questions.

When she got a little older, we talked about saving and investing and the benefit of time and compound interest. We opened her savings account when she was 13 (after her Bat Mitzvah). Then when she had earned income, we opened her Roth.

When she was finishing high school and preparing for college, she got her credit card and we again reviewed all of the details about how that works.

We spent a lot of time, most recently last night, on college finances. A couple of years ago we sat down and I showed her where all of the money was coming from for the first 2 years. I talked about the fact that in years 3 and 4, she and we would need to borrow money. Now that we're at that point, we're talking more about the details of that and we'll talk more once she actually gets the loan and we can look at the payment plan and terms.

It's an ongoing process that has to be age appropriate for the kid and involve concepts that start to have real world meaning to them as they get older. I wouldn't have spoken to my 9 year old about college loans as it wouldn't have made sense to her then and I wouldn't speak to my now 20 year old about the need to save part of your income as she already has a good understanding of that.

[Nutria]

makes my check pattern easier to manage since I'm not completely off the check to check life.

I've been using CheckFree (since there are multiple companies with a similar name, note that this one is owned by Fiserv) for 15 years. They've been around for 35 years (my uncle dialed into their computer using a 300 baud modem connected to an Osborne 1 back in 1982), and I've never had a hiccup that was CheckFree's fault.

Since they print & mail checks to "companies" that can't receive EDI, we've also used it to send payments to people like my grandmother and the treasurer of the Kiwanis Club my wife belongs to.