Separation advice

[riverwed070707]

My husband is moving out. I provide the sole income for our household. I know I need to contact a lawyer and go through all the right steps but I need short-term advice on how to handle the expenses and protect our finances. I'm afraid of him going rampant and depleating all our savings out of spite. At the same time, I don't want to cut him off completely immediately -- he needs a place to stay and transportation to find a job, and I want him to be able to get on his feet. How do I help him do that without jepardizing my own financial security? Right now things are relatively civil and I don't have any reason to belive he is going to intentially do this but who knows how long it might take to find a job and get settled somewhere.

Our efund is small but relatively safe as its in a location with no cards or direct access except by 3 day transfer. We have a couple checking/savings accounts that he has access to, and a credit card with a $20,000 limit and no balance. At my salary, it would be devastating if he charged up that card and I wouldn't be able to get out from under it. Do I take him off? I use it regularly for work travel expenses but I could probably find a temporary alternative if needed. What about the accounts? Should I keep having my paychecks deposited there or should I move them elsewhere? Just don't know where to start. Thanks for any advice.

[Petunia 100]

I'm very sorry that you are going through this, Riverwed.

I suggest you and dh close your joint accounts and open new individual accounts.

If you are not moving ahead with a divorce, then a legal separation can offer some protection. I suggest you Google "legal separation in <your state>" for more information.

[debtfreeme]

seperating

First, I am sorry that you and your husband are going through this difficult time.

What state are you in? that will be the most telling.

I would remove him from any credit cards where I was the primary and he is the secondary. And I would talk to him about closing any cards where we are joint users because in most states regardless of who charges the debts both parties are responsible for paying them off.

And I would suggest changing you paycheck to another account and talking with him about what he will need to survive on until he gets a job.

And an agreement in writing (even via email) that neither will touch the E Fund. Even though you need days to transfer it, it is still accessible.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Definitely shut down all joint cards, but are you for sure going to divorce or are you going to work on it? That might influence whether you should do anything else drastic.

[bjl584]

It would probably be a good idea to close the joint accounts just in case.

[riverwed070707]

Definitely shut down all joint cards, but are you for sure going to divorce or are you going to work on it? That might influence whether you should do anything else drastic.

I'd like to work it out eventually but we don't have an on again off again relationship where moving out means he will be back next week. I anticipate it taking some time.

[dawnwes]

Def. close out joint accounts.

The first home we sold, we sold to a single dad. His wife went out one day, cleared out all of his bank accounts, charged up the CC and took off on her own leaving him with not much $$ and with the kids.

[tulog]

How long have you been married, and what state?

In the meantime:

- Call the credit card company to remove his access to the $20,000 credit card.
- Add e-mail or text alerts to the credit card for any charge over a certain amount, say $20.
- Withdraw 50% from the joint checking and savings accounts, and the efund.
(The remaining monies show that you financially supported him to become self-sufficient).
- Open an individual checking and savings bank account at a new bank.
- Change your direct deposit instructions to the new bank.
- Collect copies of all financial documents, and keep them safe in your possession.


The filing of a divorce or legal separation petition causes various temporary orders (automatic stay) to automatically be made - these orders provide you certain financial protections once you serve the documents on him.

An important date legally is the 'date of permanent separation'. Depending on your strategy, you may want to establish that the 'date of permanent separation' has already occurred as of the date husband moved out. To document that date, send him a certified letter (keep receipt and copy of letter) confirming the fact that he moved out on that particular date and that you two are permanently separated. Also, make a note of your assets, debts, and incomes as of that date.

Also, as you are the primary earner, when you file divorce or legal separation paperwork, you should include in the judgment an order for him to become self-sufficient. In California, this type of warning is called a Gavron Warning. This requires the lower-earning spouse to take steps to become self-sufficient.

[riverwed070707]

How long have you been married, and what state?

In the meantime:

- Call the credit card company to remove his access to the $20,000 credit card.
- Add e-mail or text alerts to the credit card for any charge over a certain amount, say $20.
- Withdraw 50% from the joint checking and savings accounts, and the efund.
(The remaining monies show that you financially supported him to become self-sufficient).
- Open an individual checking and savings bank account at a new bank.
- Change your direct deposit instructions to the new bank.
- Collect copies of all financial documents, and keep them safe in your possession.


The filing of a divorce or legal separation petition causes various temporary orders (automatic stay) to automatically be made - these orders provide you certain financial protections once you serve the documents on him.

An important date legally is the 'date of permanent separation'. Depending on your strategy, you may want to establish that the 'date of permanent separation' has already occurred as of the date husband moved out. To document that date, send him a certified letter (keep receipt and copy of letter) confirming the fact that he moved out on that particular date and that you two are permanently separated. Also, make a note of your assets, debts, and incomes as of that date.

Also, as you are the primary earner, when you file divorce or legal separation paperwork, you should include in the judgment an order for him to become self-sufficient. In California, this type of warning is called a Gavron Warning. This requires the lower-earning spouse to take steps to become self-sufficient.

Thank you.

Married 6 years in Iowa.

I've tried reading up on a legal separation and what exactly that means. If we both think we'd like to be able to make things work eventually, do I need to do that? What is the benefit?

[tulog]

The only important difference is that a person who is legally separated is not free to remarry. A legal separation can be changed to a dissolution (divorce) by either party amending the complaint.

[Petunia 100]

Riverwed, from information I am finding it seems that since you live in a common law property state, if you put money you earned in a joint account, it is joint property. If you put money you earned in an individual account, it is your individual property.

I am also finding that individual debts belong only to the spouse who incurred them, unless they are for a purpose which "benefits the marriage". (The examples given are food, clothing, child care, shelter, or necessary household items). But debts incurred on a joint credit account are joint, no matter who made the charges.

I don't think you need a legal separation, you just need to close all joint accounts and each open your own. It won't hurt anything, you can always open new joint accounts later if you are able to reconcile.

But please do check with a lawyer in your state. The fee is worth the peace of mind.

It occurs to me that there is a practicing family law attorney who lives in Iowa and posts regularly on http://www.notmsnmoney.proboards.com/. I'll bet you if you started a thread there just like your thread here, she would pipe up and tell you what you should do.

ETA: Go to the "Your Money" folder. That is where she is likely to see it.

[shaggy]

The legal separation date is important because by law, anything you earn after that date is not marital property (it will be yours solely).

Definitely get him off of your accounts and take your name of any accounts of his that you have access to. Just print out a copy of your credit report and call every lender/credit card issuer on that list.

Best of luck to you. If it's any comfort, separating from my non-working ex-husband is the best decision I ever made.

[tulog]

Riverwed, from information I am finding it seems that since you live in a common law property state, if you put money you earned in a joint account, it is joint property. If you put money you earned in an individual account, it is your individual property.

Iowa is not a community property state; it is an equitable distribution state. But even in a CP context, this information is inaccurate.

In CP states, all income, except inheritance or gift, earned from the date of marriage to the date of permanent separation is presumed to be community property. The categorization of account does not control whether property is classified community or separate. That being said, it is easier to control money in an individual account.

I am also finding that individual debts belong only to the spouse who incurred them, unless they are for a purpose which "benefits the marriage". (The examples given are food, clothing, child care, shelter, or necessary household items). But debts incurred on a joint credit account are joint, no matter who made the charges.

Same statement on Iowa.

In CP states, debts incurred during marriage and before the date of permanent separation are presumed to be community debts. A party disputing that a debt is community has the burden of proof to show that the debt did not benefit the community. This is a high burden, and in the event of a dispute over classification, the court may liberally interpret an expenditure so as to benefit the community.

[tulog]

The legal separation date is important because by law, anything you earn after that date is not marital property (it will be yours solely).

Yes, but - remember that the divorce or legal separation process takes months, and you will have to give two sets of financial disclosures, one at filing the divorce, and a second set later. Consider making your liquid financial position look as weak as possible to minimize husband's ability to argue for increased spousal support.

In general, don't get too complacent or comfortable until the court issues a final decree.

[Petunia 100]

This is the information I found: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...bts-29572.html

The first page talks about community property states, the second talks about common property states.

Certainly, I could be reading it wrong. Or perhaps there is some state law in Iowa which supercedes it.