Are vitamins a waste of money?

[reptile411]

Of course they are not a wast of money, a bottle can keep the kids amused for hours. Its the cheapest baby sitter in the world. Only joking of course. I don't take them but both kids do however I don't know if they are working lol.

[Bluestreak]

Frankly, I really don't know whether they significantly help down the road or not. I do feel like I have more energy, particularly with the multiple. One thing I really notice with the multiple is the increased libido!!

I really wish I knew and have wondered since I started reading some articles from very qualified individuals about how unnecessary they are with a good diet. Some nutritionists argue yes and others argue no. Clearly a consistent balanced diet with the appropriate nutrients is much more effective than anything else, yet I really don't see vitamins as detrimental unless you are taking them in excess and emptying your wallet at the same time.

One reason I do take them is my Grandfather is 95 and healthy as an ox. He swears by the vitamins and takes them religiously. He has been taking vitamins, along with a very well balanced diet for many decades so who knows how much of a role the vitamins have had.

[sandyandry]

What your friend told is completely wrong, do not go with your friend .Vitamins are very necessary for body. But one thing, rather then buying medicines, why do not you with natural food stuff.

Vitamin D in milk helps your bones.
Vitamin A in carrots helps you see at night.
Vitamin C in oranges helps your body heal if you get a cut.
B vitamins in leafy green vegetables help your body make protein and energy.

[whitestripe]

Vitamin D in milk helps your bones.
Vitamin A in carrots helps you see at night.
Vitamin C in oranges helps your body heal if you get a cut.
B vitamins in leafy green vegetables help your body make protein and energy.

It is nearly impossible to get adequate amounts of vitamin D from your diet. Sunlight exposure is the only reliable way to generate vitamin D in your own body.
A person would have to drink ten tall glasses of vitamin D fortified milk each day just to get minimum levels of vitamin D into their diet. note that it's FORTIFIED milk.

[lemarquis]

One study will tell you they help, another will say they don't help. There is no definitive answer. If you think it helps then it probably will.

[Scanner]

As an alternative/complementary/mainstream practiticioner (work both in alternative and mainstream healthcare), I have a lot to say about this.

I just glanced but a lot of people are talking about osteoporosis.

Osteoporosis is generally a hormonal disorder, not a lack of Vit. D or Calcium. Also, new research indicated, like a lot of diseases, it's actually a "pediatric disease with geriatric consequences."

That is, girls ages 10-15 are going to benefit the most from supplementation, rather than the female, aged 45 and pre-menopausal and quaffing the latest supplement. This is because your peak bone density is acheived in puberty for women and a the time of spinal and pelvic/hip maturity.

Think it like dental carries. Most of the teeth problems we aquire are actually in early childhood and teenage years. As adults we deal with the root canals and stuff generally as consequential stuff from those years.

I'll write more on this subject later of vitamins and supplements. In short, yes, a lot of Americans are wasting their money on them but they aren't a total wash.

[Scanner]

And yes, I appreciate having DisneySteve's perspective as a broad-based, family physician. My background is a chiropractic physician, where the education delves a lot into the complementary/alternative interventions. I also work as a simple CAT scan tech. in mainstream, so I get the benefit of seeing both worlds, but have more "authority" in the alternative world. That being said, no internecine jealousy here. . .DisneySteve would see many more different pathologies in a week than I do and would be able to offer a better perspective. I hope he chimes in and agrees or disagrees with what I am about to say.

Simply put, most Americans are suffering from "overnourishment" rather than "undernourishment." Yet, the vitamin and supplement industry would have you believe you aren't getting enough Vitamin A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and so on in your diets.

If you don't believe me, that overnourishment isn't a problem in the US, 2 out of 3 people at this forum is overweight. Sorry to call you all a bunch of fatties but I think for some reason this point is getting lost on Americans.

It is my strong opinion that rather than supplementing your diets regularly with whatever, that you should partake in an occasional fast (water fast), provided there are no contraindications in your health to doing so (like insulin dependent diabetes). If you demand strong research before attempting an intervention, the research behind fasting and/or severe caloric restrictive diet is very, very strong and high class.

If Jeffrey doesn't mind, I would take the unapologetic opportunity for you to visit my website on the matter. Another physician and I plan to publish guidelines soon. (yes, a shameless plug but I hope the moderators will allow me a little latitude )

Now. . .all that being said, I am not poo-pooing every single supplement out there. FOr instance, I think we are very close to one day soon, the FDA recommending that every American take an Omega-3 Fatty Acid supplement in their diet. And for the FDA to do anything. . .well. . .it probably would have the quality evidence that flouridation of water had behind it in preventing dental carries. The gov't just doesn't make dietary recommedations willy-nilly.

It's not clear but the reason our meats are lacking in the Omega-3 oils is because they are not free-ranged anymore where they pick up a lot of chlorophyill for their flesh to convert it into the fatty acids that we normally had in our diets. Now that salmon is starting to be fish farmed, you are going to see a natural decline in Omega-3 oils in that food.

And the quality of evidence behind Omega-3's is pretty damn strong (one poster said no supplements have any good published studies behind them - simply wrong).

I didn't even get into the complicated subject of "supplementation" vs. "therapeutic value". . .for instance, although a patient may not be lacking in niacin in their diet, taking a "no-flush" niacin supplment for hypercholesterolemia would probably have therapeutic value and insulate somewhat against plaque and clot formation.

As well as a Statin? Maybe. Maybe not. I'll let DisneySteve comment on that.

Also, high does of Omega-3 fatty acids were shown (3 caplets per meal vs. 1 caplet) to have the same anti-inflammatory effect as Advil. I regularly recommend my inflammed back pain patient take it short term but to also inform their pharmacist to check for any potential interactions (all that oil may cause gastrointestinal distress).

In short, I think it would behoove Americans to start thinking in terms of themselves being overnourished rather than undernourished and stop with all the damn pills - medicine and vitamins. Americans consume half of all the world phamaceuticals.

HALF!!!!

We are addicted to this idea of pill swallowing and to stay to the theme of this forum. . .I do think your resources are maybe better spent elsewhere.

As far as specific diseases (one poster posted a health problem), a physician (osteopathic, allopathic or chiropractic) can't really give health advice over the internet as some case law has been established that once advice is given (esp. via email), a doctor/patient relationship is formed (and thus that person is liable).

[disneysteve]

I have been purposely staying out of this thread, but I guess it is time to weigh in. I'm going to keep this short and sweet rather than going into a long-winded dissertation.

We all need certain vitamins, minerals, amino acids and other nutrients to maintain good health. By far, the best and most effective way to get those nutrients is through the foods we eat. You can not make up for a lousy diet by popping a few pills each morning. Study after study has shown that our body uses vitamins in their natural state better than those in supplement form.

So my advice to anyone who is concerned that they aren't getting adequate vitamins in their diet is to improve your diet. Eat more fruits and vegetables. Eat more whole grains. Get 15 minutes of sunshine daily when possible, but use sunscreen the rest of the time.

I see nothing at all wrong with taking an inexpensive multivitamin, like Centrum. In fact, I do so myself. I buy the Target or Wal-Mart generic version of Centrum. A year's supply costs about $10. I figure it can't hurt. What can hurt, your wallet if nothing else, is going to GNC and spending hundreds of dollars on mega-man (or mega-woman) vitamin packs that make all kinds of unsubstantiated health claims.

I see patients every day who eat McDonald's breakfast sandwiches every morning, Chinese takeout for lunch, maybe a TV dinner after work and a dish of ice cream in the evening while sitting in front of the TV. Those same patients will hand me a list of all the vitamins and supplements they take. Those people quite simply are wasting their hard-earned cash.

[GREENBACK]

I see nothing at all wrong with taking an inexpensive multivitamin, like Centrum. In fact, I do so myself. I buy the Target or Wal-Mart generic version of Centrum. A year's supply costs about $10. I figure it can't hurt. What can hurt, your wallet if nothing else, is going to GNC and spending hundreds of dollars on mega-man (or mega-woman) vitamin packs that make all kinds of unsubstantiated health claims.

Thanks for weighing in DS. I have taken a daily muti vitamin for years and I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference or not. I feel better for it(may be psychological) but I also run and workout and my body mass index is where it should be so maybe it makes no difference for me. I was a GNC freak at one time and it probably matters if you're an athlete attempting to aspire to the highest levels of your sport but it's definitely unnecessary for average folks and is definitely expensive. Most of us live relatively sedentary lives that require no extra vitamins beyond those that can be obtained in a healthy diet as Scanner alluded to. I personally think vigorous physical activity throughout one's life may be the most important thing but diet is certainly important and I guess vitamins are an extra but not a substitute.

[snafu]

thanks Dr. DS. Our Dr. goes into spasms of laughter when asked about vitamin pills and those so expensive supplements. He makes it clear that if blood work [tests] determine there is a deficiency, carefully chosen vitamins can help. Best to eat foods [sunshine Vitamin D] as a body absorbs better. 2nd, as mentioned, poor/no regulations and too many are from offshore. There is the potential to ingest something dangerous. One of those supplements was withdrawn from market this weekend. People were suffering kidney damage and that is permanent!

[Salmon Runner]

i never knew there was such a debate with vitamins. I do understand however that some people rely on vitamins, lots and lots of them to get them going during the day. I think its psychological. Some of the people that live the longest probably don't even know what vitamins are. Just eat right and live a healthy lifestyle and you won't ever need vitamins.

[disneysteve]

2nd, as mentioned, poor/no regulations and too many are from offshore. There is the potential to ingest something dangerous.

This is not so much with vitamins but with herbs and other supplements. Thanks to Congress, they are totally unregulated and are allowed to sell pretty much anything. I'm appalled that this continues to go on. They don't have to prove they are safe. They don't have to prove they are effective. They don't even have to prove that the tablets actually contain what they say they contain.

I love when a patient tells me (as happened just the other day) that she doesn't want to take the prescription med I'm recommending because she's concerned about side effects and will instead treat herself with herbal remedies. The prescription has been extensively tested and studied and is produced in a tightly controlled environment. The herbal remedy is a crap shoot.

[Scanner]

I seem to recall, but I can't find the reference, that supplement companies did have voluntary manufacturing standards they could adhere to. . .however, as we can all see with the banking regulations, the idea of "self-regulation" and "self-policing" is a farce and failure. Therefore, I would agree some mandatory standards should be imposed on the supplement industry so you can be relatively sure what you are injesting is what you think you are injesting, that it's relatively pure and safe to injest in small doses.

Compared to NSAID abuse/misuse/reactions, I do think worrying about supplement reactions/liver damage is like worrying about your son or daughter in Iraq being struck by lightning or beign struck by a bullet. The two just aren't even in the same ballpark.

As far as vitamins being controversial, I can see why DS avoided this thread. When it comes to education and healthcare, people can be very emotional and almost religious in their opinions on both subjects. I know I feel strongly about fasting so I am no different and I probably should be more unbiased. But I know I am not and have strong opinions on the matter.

It comes down to the fact I think Americans swallow too many pills and spend too much money on pills, vitamins and medicines alike. When I see an elderly patient coming in on 13 different medications, I just say, "Lordy, lordy, lordy. . ."

This being said, knowing this is controversial, I think it's a subject that needs revisiting from time to time here at this forum and shouldn't be avoided. Pills = money and I think healthcare consumers (which are basically all of us) need to evaluate if some of the pills (medicine and vitamins alike) don't need to be given the line budget item axe. If we as doctors and patients don't talk about it, that's just putting our heads in the sand and letting the industry (pharmaceutical and supplement) lead America instead of America leading the industry.

[Scanner]

YouTube - Bill Maher rant on Big Pharma - Pharmaceutical industry vs nutrition and common sense

I know Conservatives don't like Bill Mayer and therefore, many here will discount what he says in this rant here, but I think this is more evidence, that from a "Frugal" standpoint, we should be having this discussion more.

We all seem to talk about pinching the pennies to brownbag our lunch vs. eating out, clipping $.25 coupons here and there but $100 medicines/vitamins appear to be a sacred cow that we don't want to question.

In the case of pharmaceuticals, it's double problem because "gee, my insurance covers it, therefore. . .why should I be frugal?" Vitamins (with a few exceptions like prenatal) aren't covered, therefore, we open the discussion up more as consumers.

[destiny10]

unless its recomended by a doctor, I dont see a point of wasting your money on stupid vitamins.