Is Verizon discriminating against the poor?

[disneysteve]

Driving to work this morning, I heard a story on the local new (Philadelphia). A city councilman is accusing Verizon of dragging their feet and delaying the installation of FIOS in the poorer neighborhoods of the city. Apparently, Verizon was awarded the contract in 2009 and the work is supposed to be completed city wide by 2016. Other more affluent sections of the city have had the work done but, according to him, the poorer districts that he represents have not.

What really struck me about the story was what the councilman said. And this is a direct quote: "we want to make sure that every neighborhood in the city is getting built out with the Fios, and not just neighborhoods that can afford to pay the fees." So he is admitting that what he wants is for a private company to spend millions of dollars to install a service in an area where the residents can't afford to buy that service. That doesn't sound like discrimination to me. It sounds lie good solid business sense on Verizon's part.

[bjl584]

Sounds like Verizon is focusing on the areas of the city where they can generate revenue and profit, which is essentially the purpose of a business.

In school, we learned about institutionalized racism. Companies being discriminatory because of their business practices. Some of the clasic examples that were given were taxi drivers refusing to pick up people of certain races or that fit a certain profile because the drivers felt that those people would ask to be driven to a dangerous neighborhood. Another was a pizza chain refusing to deliver to certain sections of town because there was a higher chance that their drivers would be robbed. So, is that racism or is it common sense?

[kv968]

Driving to work this morning, I heard a story on the local new (Philadelphia). A city councilman is accusing Verizon of dragging their feet and delaying the installation of FIOS in the poorer neighborhoods of the city. Apparently, Verizon was awarded the contract in 2009 and the work is supposed to be completed city wide by 2016. Other more affluent sections of the city have had the work done but, according to him, the poorer districts that he represents have not.

What really struck me about the story was what the councilman said. And this is a direct quote: "we want to make sure that every neighborhood in the city is getting built out with the Fios, and not just neighborhoods that can afford to pay the fees." So he is admitting that what he wants is for a private company to spend millions of dollars to install a service in an area where the residents can't afford to buy that service. That doesn't sound like discrimination to me. It sounds lie good solid business sense on Verizon's part.

Sounds to me like good business and a politicial being a politician...Sound good in front of your voters but realize it probably doesn't make sense.

As far as FIOS, I haven't checked the numbers on it but I think Verizon is slowing the build-out across the board. I know where I live in NJ (not affluent but definitely a good market for them) they were saying it was going to be available about 3 years ago and on the verge of getting to people to sign up. So far...? Nothing.

I have a feeling they're more worried about spending money on expanding their 4g network rather than FIOS. With all the smartphones and tablets using up the bandwidth, they're in a huge fight with AT&T to dominate that market. I think FIOS at this point is almost a second thought.

[disneysteve]

It sounds like Verizon was awarded a contract to wire the entire city by 2016 and they are leaving the poor areas (where folks can't afford FIOS) for last. I don't see where that's a problem. Some neighborhoods are going to be last. They can't all be done at the same time. It makes sense to do the most lucrative ones first.

As for pizza delivery and cab service, that's a more sticky issue. Working in a very poor area, I'm familiar with that. The number of places that will deliver lunch to our office is pretty limited because of our address which really isn't right IMO. If we're willing to give you the business and have the money to pay for your services, why would you want to turn away customers?

[kv968]

As for pizza delivery and cab service, that's a more sticky issue. Working in a very poor area, I'm familiar with that. The number of places that will deliver lunch to our office is pretty limited because of our address which really isn't right IMO. If we're willing to give you the business and have the money to pay for your services, why would you want to turn away customers?

Uh, because you don't want your delivery person to get shot?

[bjl584]

If we're willing to give you the business and have the money to pay for your services, why would you want to turn away customers?

Unfortunately, there have been cases of pizza delivery people delivering a pizza only to walk into an ambush at the front door. There was a case a few years ago of a man being killed as he went up to the front door. There are tons of stories like this. See the link below.

pizza delivery man killed - Google Search

Your address at your office must be in a location with a lot of police activity and reports making pizza shops unwilling to take the risk.

[NuggetBrain]

As a black woman who has seen members of my family not get taxis, & have seen my white husband have to flag them down instead, I'm going to refrain from saying what I think about your absolutely absurd examples, Brian.

[disneysteve]

Your address at your office must be in a location with a lot of police activity and reports making pizza shops unwilling to take the risk.

Oh, I understand it. I just don't like it. I come here every day. My staff comes here every day. We haven't gotten shot yet and I've been here 12 years.

[BuckyBadger]

Oh, I understand it. I just don't like it. I come here every day. My staff comes here every day. We haven't gotten shot yet and I've been here 12 years.

You're probably not walking around up to strange houses and essentially wearing a sign that says you are carrying a bunch of cash, though

Isn't there some statistic out there about how dangerous it is to be a pizza delivery person?

The United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, which categorizes pizza delivery drivers and taxicab drivers as "drivers-sales workers", ranked it the fifth most dangerous job category, behind military personnel, police officers, stunt performers, and firefighters.

[disneysteve]

As a black woman who has seen members of my family not get taxis, & have seen my white husband have to flag them down instead, I'm going to refrain from saying what I think about your absolutely absurd examples, Brian.

That is outright discrimination. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I do think, however, that there is a difference between a taxi not stopping for a black man on the same street where he will stop for a white man and a taxi not going into a crime-ridden neighborhood regardless of the race of the person calling. Then it isn't about the individual. It is about the risk of the area. We can't deny that there are dangerous neighborhoods and high crime areas. That's what we face at work. The neighborhood is fairly diverse racially - black, white and Hispanic mixed. The problem is the crime rate.

[NuggetBrain]

That is outright discrimination. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I do think, however, that there is a difference between a taxi not stopping for a black man on the same street where he will stop for a white man and a taxi not going into a crime-ridden neighborhood regardless of the race of the person calling. Then it isn't about the individual. It is about the risk of the area. We can't deny that there are dangerous neighborhoods and high crime areas. That's what we face at work. The neighborhood is fairly diverse racially - black, white and Hispanic mixed. The problem is the crime rate.

Brian's example was taxis not picking up people of a certain race or "profile" because they MIGHT ask to be taken to certain dangerous neighborhoods. I stand by my earlier statement that the example is absurd.

[NuggetBrain]

And for the record, I think Verizon's actions have nothing to do with race. If the rich & middle class neighborhoods were all people of color, and the poor neighborhoods were all white folks I think they would have done the same thing. Can't blame them for it either....a business that doesn't make money won't be around very long. Plus if they have until 2016 why are people freaking out now? They probably built in their key areas first.

[disneysteve]

Brian's example was taxis not picking up people of a certain race or "profile" because they MIGHT ask to be taken to certain dangerous neighborhoods. I stand by my earlier statement that the example is absurd.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just clarifying the situation that we deal with here.

This is similar to the report a couple of years ago about people's credit being affected by shopping in certain neighborhoods. As I said, I work in a poor area. Sometimes, I eat or shop around here. Should that affect my credit? Of course not.

And for the record, I think Verizon's actions have nothing to do with race. If the rich & middle class neighborhoods were all people of color, and the poor neighborhoods were all white folks I think they would have done the same thing. Can't blame them for it either....a business that doesn't make money won't be around very long. Plus if they have until 2016 why are people freaking out now? They probably built in their key areas first.

That was my thought when I heard the story. It seems to just be political posturing, a councilman wanting to look like he's doing something for "his people".

[bjl584]

Brian's example was taxis not picking up people of a certain race or "profile" because they MIGHT ask to be taken to certain dangerous neighborhoods. I stand by my earlier statement that the example is absurd.

It wasn't my example. It's something I learned in a college class. I didn't make it up.

The lesson was about certain companies profiling certain people in certain areas because there may be a risk involved in doing business with them. The lesson sparked a lot of interesting debate about whether or not such business practices are discriminatory.

[bjl584]

I'm going to refrain from saying what I think about your absolutely absurd examples, Brian.

Good idea