Girlfriend with manageable debt, but still problems persist

**disneysteve** · 10-14-2010, 04:20 PM

I would not pay off a girlfriend's or boyfriend's loans. I would pay off a wife's or husband's loans. Call me old fashioned but I don't believe in merging finances until that point in the relationship.

Keep in mind throughout this process that money fights are the leading cause of divorce.

If the two of you are fighting over money now when you are both single and you are just paying for dinner, how do you think she will feel if you pay off her debt? That isn't going to make her any less insecure - just the opposite I would think.

What would I do? I'd probably run the other way if I found out a girl I was dating was 13K in credit card debt, but that's just me. If I wanted to try and make things work, I'd offer to help her review her budget and devise a plan to repay the debt in a reasonable period of time. I'd explore why she is only working part-time. If she isn't able to find a full-time position right now, how about a 2nd PT position to bring her income up to FT level?

When you say "undisclosed amount of student loans" what exactly do you mean? Undisclosed to you? If she isn't willing to share that info with you, that would concern me a great deal.

Your last paragraph also concerns me. If she isn't treating you with respect now, don't pretend that will change. Maybe if the current money problems get resolved, the situation will improve temporarily, but if that is how she deals with stress and conflict, that attitude will be back again later.

Sorry to sound pessimistic but a 28-year-old with 13K in CC debt and some significant amount in student loan debt who is only working PT and living with her mother raises a bunch of red flags in my mind. JMHO.

**miclason** · 10-14-2010, 05:28 PM

she either resents that you are in a better financial point, or she feels like she�s losing her financial independence when you pay for all that stuff (maybe she even feels that the money spent on those things might be better spent elsewhere, or maybe your paying reminds her that she CAN�T pay for it, and that hurts). I would not pay her debt if I were you, that would only kill your relationship. I would sit down with her and ask her what she feels would be the best way for me (you) to help her.

**carlVA** · 10-14-2010, 05:49 PM

Don't pay off GF debt. You don't want to be responsible for that debt if you ever break up. You can help her by continuing to pay for your outings. If she's responsible she will take advantage of her low expenses and pay off her CC.

**mdcrim** · 10-14-2010, 05:52 PM

A third vote for not paying her debt. I also question the undisclosed student loans-to you or that you aren't willing to share? Trust me, I've met several people who have six figure student loan balances with low five figure jobs. Does she have any intention of trying to get the debts resolved? You mention a part time job. Is she not able to find a full time job? What about a second part time job? Your girlfriend is 28 years old, has a part time job and lives with her mother. I think you might be in different places, even though you are younger. I know you love her but you mention you fight more with her than with any prior relationship. I think she may need some time to grow up. That's just my humble opinion.

**Redraidernurse** · 10-14-2010, 07:30 PM

I also vote for not paying off her debt. While it may seem like a way to improve your relationship by helping her be "less stressed", there is no guarantee that once this debt is paid off your relationship will improve. And worse, if your relationship ends, you will spend the rest of your days kicking yourself for being such and idiot for using your money in that way.

**ocean1026** · 10-15-2010, 09:01 AM

First and foremost, thank you all for your valuable opinions. To each of your points, I know that this sounds like a lost cause case. Even after I posted this and re-read it, the blog felt sad to read and a bit disappointing in terms of how most of you made the point that as a fully capable college graduate she should be working non-stop to tackle this problem in some sort of a full-time position.

In reference to me paying off this debt, I feel I understand this will leave a questions mark as to whether this payment will help our relationship improve. I expect that it won't because it's in my nature to expect the worst, but hope for the best. Realistically I know this relationship is destined to fail, but as a hopeful realist (if there ever were such a person) I wish it would be different. If only she could take control of her life and finances, things would be different. Thank you all once again, and will most definitely hold off on paying down her debt.

**EEinNJ** · 10-15-2010, 11:14 AM

Somewhere along the way in long-term relationships, difficult times come. You are getting a view of that from the shallow end of the pool, so to speak.
People suffer loss, sometimes make bad decisions, find themselves un- or underemployed, and in debt. Doesn't make them bad people, unforgivable, or unlovable.

The frustration and resentment you're getting from her is because she can't cope well on her own. You're doing well, but she's working part-time for low wages, underwater in debt, and living with her mom at age 28. If you start paying her debts you'll take what's left of her self respect, and she may feel she owes you something in return. If she DIDn't have any of those feelings, I'd be even more concerned.

Rather than "rescuing" her or breaking up, maybe instead of taking her out for a dinner, etc. you could cook a dinner together, for example, and you could offer to put the money towards a payment. Or if you're going somewhere in her car, fill the tank up. In other words, help in ways that will let her feel you're dealing with it together, and she keeps her dignity. Working through it, rather than just writing a check, will tell you if this is a person you can face life's challenges with. Most of them can't be fixed with just a checkbook!

**jIM_Ohio** · 10-15-2010, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by ocean1026 View Post

In my case I wanted to find out what basic advice any of you who have debt or have been in a relationship with someone who has been in debt, could offer. My situation is quite simple really. I am three years younger than my girlfriend, and have come from a privileged life. Despite this amazing advantage, I have worked extremely hard and diligently to get far ahead of where my peers are at this age of 25. Having finished my MBA a year ago, started a successful business, and gotten an amazing career opportunity that has put me into a six figure tax bracket, debt is not something I have ever known or would ever hopefully become familiar with. Thank God!

As for my girlfriend though, her situation has been quite the opposite. Her life at one point was quite good and successful in terms of finances before she met me, but is currently nowhere near what she used to have it at. Due to some uncontrollable life altering events (two brothers passing away), she has not made the best decisions for her financial well-being after that point. She currently has credit card debt amounting to around $13K plus an undisclosed amount of student loans, which by many people's standards is very small, but significant nonetheless. The question I am posing is should I pay off the credit card debt for her in order to make her feel at ease? The reason I mention the credit cards before anything else is because she receives between 6-12 calls a day from collectors, and I have read this can make people feel quite stressed not answering them. She currently works part-time at a retail clothing store and moved back in with her mother to save money. Thus far she has not been proactive about devising a payment plan because her current job only makes enough money to feed her, pay for her cell phone, and car note.

Despite this, I love her very much and would hope to be with her for the rest of my life if possible. I see major potential in her to blossom again, so leaving her is not really an option in my mind, but am open to anyone's opinions.

In terms of our relationship, her situation is currently taking its toll on her and us together. These problems are now affecting her personality because I do so much for her in terms of giving her gifts, taking her on trips, and always paying for meals with no strings attached. Her personality has become more prideful and blameful as if to say I do everything wrong and she has no respect for me. She greets the gifts with happiness and gratitude, but quickly after forgets and begins acting very rude at times. We have fought more in these past few months than I have ever fought in any of my past relationships put together, but know its due to an underlying insecurity of some sort.

I'm all out of ideas on what to do and would definitely appreciate any advice I can get. Thank you all.

First, relationships are complex. I have been married for 8 years and know my wife for about 6 (JK- it is about 11).

Because money is important, it is important to discuss, but here is how I interpreted your post

1) You have had "clear" financial sailing, and when times challenged you economically, it did not set you back that far.

2) Your GF has not had clear financial sailing, and when times challenged her she supported family (like funeral expenses) and went into debt.

Certain things trump money, and death would be one of them. If you judge her because she has debt, keep in mind its possible if the shoe was on the other foot (meaning you had more severe economic challenges early in life) it's very possible you would have debt which would have set you back.

You did not mention how long it would take to pay down 13k of debt. Should take maybe 6 months, 12 at the most. If you pay the bills and she can pay the debt, that would work for me.

Money means different things to different people
to some it means security
to some it means consumption
to some it means enjoy life
to some it means the ability to help those less fortunate

you need to understand each other as it pertains to this subject

**Seeker** · 10-17-2010, 10:10 PM

Hmmmm.

Brothers were younger than her, or older? Did the brothers pass quite suddenly (like auto accident), or rather expected? What was her relationship with her brothers? How much time has elapsed since brothers passing?

I'm sorry that these questions are being posed, but you should consider the similarities.

Is it possible that she thinks she might lose you?

Might she see you as a "brother" figure (in terms of how you behave toward her)?

How is her Mother doing? Is her moving back home something that has the potential of helping them both? Is her Father around or might she be helping her Mother with her physical presence considering the loss of this family?

It sounds as if she's not really in too much debt; but in a whole lot of "life" paralysis and pain.

----------

What do I suggest you do?

I don't have a lot to suggest because I don't understand the reality of your situation with her.

The time that has elapsed is a very huge question in relation to her "healing" or getting on with her life.

Talk with her. Be with her. Tell her what you feel about her and what your concerns are.

Tell her what you would be feeling if you were to help her with this CC money side of the past debts. Ask her how she would really feel about it and about you. Tell her what you really feel about her.

Post again.

**Seeker** · 10-19-2010, 01:04 AM

My feeling is that she's afraid to love and then to lose again. She's afraid of feeling again.

That's why her life changed when her brothers passed.

That's why she appears to not be motivated.

And that's why she fights with you when you are being kind to her.

Whenever her brothers passed, she became "unresolved" for whatever reason.

She is afraid to feel love, and then to lose it.

She will not be able to "blossom" until she finds peace with those past events. It's not your doing; she's fighting herself.

She need to recognize and accept that the past is gone. And come what may, the only thing we can do is live each day to the fullest best of our ability, because the alternative is to isolate, alienate, and just plain die inside and alone.

**bjl584** · 10-19-2010, 09:36 AM

That's hard to answer. If her debt is a result of her family members' deaths, then I may consider helping her. If however, her debt is a result of poor decisions and irresponsibility, then no, I wouldn't help.

I've helped people in the past that I thought that I loved and would be with forever. It was a hard lesson learned. From personal experience I would advise against mixing finances until you are married.

**ocean1026** · 10-20-2010, 01:50 PM

Thank you all for your posts on this matter. To answer a few more questions, her brothers were older by one year and younger by one year. Both deaths were completely unexpected with one contracting spinal meningitis and passing in the early 90's and the other passing in a car accident around 2006. Some of the decisions she has made financially to get her in this hole are because of her brothers passing, and her ability to cope or not cope with it so well. She escaped her problems by moving literally all over the country for a few years, which is what the majority of this debt is made up of. Her folks divorced when she was a young teenager and has had to deal with many issues in her life that would have heavily influenced any of us writing here, had it been us in her shoes.

The one bell that goes off in my head is that her mother a few years ago helped her get out of debt once before (which I was only recently made aware of). It amounted to around $7000 at the time, of which her mom decided to wipe the slate clean as a favor due to her daughter’s (my girlfriend’s) moves around the country. Shortly after this it seems, the debt piled up again and this time with no mother to help a second time, grew the amount to around $13,000. When I asked her why she was spending money she didn’t have, she replied “I don’t know, I needed some stuff and wanted other things.”

As far as the subtle help, I think I will take the advice given about cooking together, and helping her in small ways rather than simply "writing a check" and being done with it. That is a wonderful idea. Thanks for the creative thinking. It’s an extremely difficult topic to approach and that is why for the first time ever I have sought out advice from outside sources such as you all to gain fresh perspectives. Hope everyone has a great day. Thanks!

**littleroc02us** · 10-21-2010, 02:13 PM

In my opinion this could be a character issue. Lets say you pay it off and then she goes off and runs up her cc's again? Has she learned anything? No. Finances are things that people forget to discuss before they get married. I wouldn't pay her debt off, I would discuss your concern with her and see how she handles this herself. If it doesn't change then you already know something about her that will be even more difficult if you do get married someday. Good luck!

**PMMM** · 10-22-2010, 10:33 PM

I helped both of my son's many years ago. My son's are 30 and 26 now. They both had debt and I bailed them out. They both created debt again. Now it's completely their problem. I refuse to help them again in debts matters. Even though you did not help your girlfriend in the prior time she was in debt I would not in any way shape or form help her to eliminate her current debt. I hate to be cold but it sounds as if you two are cut from different cloth altogether and I would be very cautious.

PMMM

Girlfriend with manageable debt, but still problems persist